Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2018.10.31, 10:51 AM   #1
unclearty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25
MR-02 FETs...

My club has 6 drivers.....4 of us have newer all black chassis cars, but 2 have the earlier chassis with some blue parts. We keep all vehicles stock, but we are noticing that both of the blue vehicles have a slight edge on speed. We have tried all combinations...giving each other batteries right off the chargers, etc.
I'm trying to figure out if the two different chassis have different FETs.
Also....if there IS a difference, how difficult would it be to "upgrade" the newer 4 cars to the same FETs?
Is there an FET that is better for running pure stock?
unclearty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.10.31, 11:56 AM   #2
SuperFly
bitPimp
 
SuperFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclearty View Post
My club has 6 drivers.....4 of us have newer all black chassis cars, but 2 have the earlier chassis with some blue parts. We keep all vehicles stock, but we are noticing that both of the blue vehicles have a slight edge on speed. We have tried all combinations...giving each other batteries right off the chargers, etc.
I'm trying to figure out if the two different chassis have different FETs.
Also....if there IS a difference, how difficult would it be to "upgrade" the newer 4 cars to the same FETs?
Is there an FET that is better for running pure stock?

Can you look a little closer at the different cars, and see which versions you have? Are these all MR02 for sure? Are they 27AM, FM, or ASF (EX)? Are you sure the black ones aren't MR03 Sports?

I'd have to dig up some old notes, but as I recall, the FETS on MR02 kept getting better until the end of MR02s, and early MR03 (ASF), and then took a fairly significant downgrade with the MR03 sport. I know you said MR02, but the all-black MR02 were pretty short-lived, so thought I'd check. I think all-black MR02 were later EX versions.

I've recently been spending a little more time with fine tuning with things like spacers, shims, bearing cleaner and lubricant, gear mesh, wheel nut tightness, etc., and it's surprising how much extra speed you can squeeze out of a car just by making sure everything is moving as smooth as it can. It can present itself as a significant speed difference between two otherwise similar cars.
__________________

mini-z gallery


PDX Mini-Z
SuperFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.10.31, 03:04 PM   #3
arch2b
Moderator
 
arch2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,130
Send a message via AIM to arch2b
it could also be variation in motor fabrication tolerance. Unless you get a blueprinted motor, you will always see a degree of variation in performance.
arch2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.10.31, 08:29 PM   #4
EMU
EMUracing
 
EMU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,398
Send a message via AIM to EMU
If they are all ASF models, they should all have 2x2 3010 fet installed. The MR03 Sport I believe have 3010 1x2 fet, and the newest RWD/FWD have a newer fet that is actually rated pretty well, very close to the 8858 fet, but only 1x2.

The motor variation could be an issue, as well as the differential tightness. Are these all using the stock differential and mount? All have bearings in the chassis?

I have noticed through my years, that some electronics are simply faster, even with the same fets and motors as other cars. I used to reserve these for spec motor class racing. Some electronics felt slow even after upgrading the fets, adjusting settings, and resoldering all of the power and motor wires to ensure there were no bad joints. These variations where in the same model of electronics as well.

Do you have an ICS adapter, to check the settings on the electronics to ensure that they are all set the same? Have you tried binding the cars to different transmitters? Everyone using the same batteries, all chassis battery contacts the same?
__________________
EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
EMU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.01, 12:20 AM   #5
herman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,682
All good points posted above...

My guess as mentioned, it might be in the electronics...
If you can open up the both chassis and post pics of the two boards...

Another thing that you might want to try is swapping out the motors of the faster cars into the slower cars to see if there are any changes...

Motors might be dirty and need cleaning...

I do remember seeing some mr02ex versions with the black chassis online... but never knew that there were performance issues of it being slower...

As for changing fets I guess you could swap them out for better ones... if you can find some (haven't really looked for one in quite a while, so I'm not up to date on what is the best fet there is out there...) and if you are pretty adept at soldering...

Pretty curious at seeing the boards side by side though... I also do remember that there was a post on documenting the progression of boards through the years... I think arch started it...

Anyway good luck and hope this helps.
herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.01, 06:33 AM   #6
unclearty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25
I will need to go home tonight and take some pix. The point to all of this is....we purposely keep all things equal. We use the same bearing..ceramic not allowed....we bought a number of new Kyosho stock motors..we use the same tires...no ball bearing diffs allowed...all the same transmitters. We all came from 1/10th scale racing where it was a constant battle to get the newest, fastest gizmo to win the A main this week. We decided on an ALL THINGS EQUAL class so that driving skill was the most important factor. However, there is still a very slight speed differential between the 2 earlier cars and the other 4.
I'll see what I can do tonight when I get home.
Thanks for all the help so far!
unclearty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.01, 08:48 AM   #7
arch2b
Moderator
 
arch2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,130
Send a message via AIM to arch2b
If I recall correctly, the MR-02EX simply fixed the reverse delay that was the inherent in the first run of ASF MR-02's.

In the end, your going to find variation in stock motors as well. Some will keep up with 70T, some are dogs. We always bought them in batches and dumped the slow ones in demonstration cars.
arch2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.02, 02:49 AM   #8
herman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclearty View Post
We decided on an ALL THINGS EQUAL class so that driving skill was the most important factor. However, there is still a very slight speed differential between the 2 earlier cars and the other 4.
I like how you guys roll... racing based on skill - one of the purest forms of racing... keeping everything as equal as possible... keeps it quite affordabe for more racers to get into without breaking the bank too...

For some reason, motors (even stock) are not created equal... ive seen that there are stock motors that you couldn't believe were stock... like go figure...

Do hope you get things sorted out.... either that or maybe time for everybody to move to a mr03?
herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.02, 03:36 AM   #9
EMU
EMUracing
 
EMU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,398
Send a message via AIM to EMU
Where is your club located?


We run a very restricted kyosho stock class for that specific reason. Plastic mounts, gear diffs... we only permit bearings, t-plate, wheel nuts, kyosho tires and are starting to include a disc damper for the car's that do not include one from the box.

This class really sets the performance very equal, and offers amazing racing for minimal expenditure. We had previously run a box stock class that only permitted tire and bearing upgrades, but gradually expanded the rule set for durability reasons and very slight tuning options to increase the inclusion of more bodies and wheelbase options. Otherwise everyone would be restricted to a handful of bodies, and in mini-z we love variety.

We also run a more open ruled 70 comp class with basically only restriction on body, 70t motor, and aaa nimh... you would be surprised by how close the kyosho stock and 70 comp times are. 70 comp basically uses the HFAY rule set with a couple restrictions reduced (open chassis and electronics).

It is easy to dump loads of money in to a car, and in the end only gain .1s lap time over a car that has less than $50 extra (including tires) over the initial cost of the car. The stock class removes the pay to win angle that many racers feel that they need to do to be competitive, and gets people on track with few setup adjustments available where they could lose the car in setup. Getting on track and turning laps is the only real way to improve. Spending all of the time in the pits tweaking everything between rounds just gives more chance of getting lost with how the car is handling. RC is 90% tires, so investing on tires is the wisest place to spend the money.

We run one company tire to reduce expenditure of searching for tires constantly. Kyosho rubber has a wide setup window, and amazing shelf life. It might not be the fastest tire, as PN and marka tend to be faster, but I have tires 10 years old that I am still using.
__________________
EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
EMU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.02, 12:54 PM   #10
unclearty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25
This is exactly WHY we made the rules the way we did. We all raced 1/10th many years ago....when it was pay to win. Each week was $100 plus....just to keep up. It's much more fun with all things equal.
As far as motors go...we HAVE tried swapping motors with each other....we even ordered new motors....let each member pick one from the pile, and STILL the 2 early cars were just a smidge faster....even swapping batteries...the outcome is always the same.
I will get some time this weekend to get some pix of the chassis and get them up on here.
unclearty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.04, 02:36 AM   #11
herman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,682
Dunno if this is still available...



The tamiya speed checker... try putting each car on it to see if speeds are similar... otherwise, the earlier boards might have a slight advantage....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20181103-090910_Facebook.jpg (404.2 KB, 36 views)
herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.04, 09:14 AM   #12
arch2b
Moderator
 
arch2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,130
Send a message via AIM to arch2b
The use of that speed checker was debunked back in the MR-01 days, which is part why you rarely see them used to measure Mini-Z anything. It's good for general testing.
arch2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.04, 08:01 PM   #13
herman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b View Post
The use of that speed checker was debunked back in the MR-01 days, which is part why you rarely see them used to measure Mini-Z anything. It's good for general testing.
I personally haven't even used one... and yes I'd have to agree with the speed checker not giving the actual speed as it wasn't that accurate...(I forgot to mention this in my previous post), but I guess it still can be used to gauge which cars are quite similar in "speed" and which cars are faster, or slower in terms of output "speed"... hope this helps...
herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018.11.05, 08:01 PM   #14
EMU
EMUracing
 
EMU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,398
Send a message via AIM to EMU
The speed checker is really only good to test unloaded speeds, basically motor rpm x final drive ratio x rollout. A car that wins on the speed checker could be one of the slowest cars on track.

It's good for comparing like cars, and seeing which has more top end. I have never felt the need to add one to my pit. A motor rpm and amperage checker would give more useful information and is a fraction of the size.
__________________
EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
EMU is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MR03 RWD FET's? LJH Mini-Z Racer MR-03, MR-03 VE, Sports Series, EVO 1 2018.09.07 11:27 AM
help with fets jdmgoodies Beginner Questions 13 2017.03.27 01:15 PM
Vishay Si4501 fets 3x2, works great.. CrashTestJohnny Parts and Hop-ups 1 2007.01.29 07:28 AM
Using Certain Hotter Motors on Stock FETs cbkia Mini-Z Science 0 2005.10.09 12:10 PM
one more question about FETs minizmaniac Motor Tech 4 2003.04.22 10:57 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts