Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2006.03.31, 07:45 PM   #1
nimble
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9
New DSS Radio and Lap Counter for Mini-Z

Nimble Motorsports has a 2.4Ghz DART Radio system that was developed for 1/10th scale cars. We also have a lap counting system that uses the cars receiver as a race transponder. The lap counting system outputs AMBrc compatible serial output, so the existing AMBrc race management software is used, including the free LapsFree software.

We have looked into building a replacement circuit board for the Mini-Z that incorporates our radio system. This would have numerous benefits, there are no channels to conflict, 100 cars can be running at once, the antennas are tiny, existing mini-z controllers can be updated, it can handle hopped-up motors and go faster, the battery life is increased, each car has a unique AMBrc compatible ID.

The question is whether we can justify the development expense to produce the upgrade board. What would people be willing to pay for it, and how many could we sell? We had a third-party interested in funding the development, but they backed-out, and so we are considering doing it ourselves if there is sufficient interest.

I'd be interested in your feedback!
nimble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.03.31, 07:56 PM   #2
tzero
Team Nomadio 007
 
tzero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Harrison TWP Michigan
Posts: 345
Send a message via AIM to tzero Send a message via Yahoo to tzero
I would be verry interested if it was about $100.
__________________
My current R/C's: JConcepts BJ4, AE T3 Factory Team, PRP XR80, Losi Mini-LST
Proud user of Nomadio radio systems.
tzero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.03.31, 08:19 PM   #3
arch2b
Moderator
 
arch2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,440
Send a message via AIM to arch2b
it would help if you could atleast give some ballpark figures. otherwise your likely to just get low ball or unrealistic desires as we all want a great system for the least amount of money as possible.

i have a feeling that regardless, you would have a market for upgrade pcb's
arch2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.03.31, 09:25 PM   #4
nimble
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b
it would help if you could atleast give some ballpark figures. otherwise your likely to just get low ball or unrealistic desires as we all want a great system for the least amount of money as possible.

i have a feeling that regardless, you would have a market for upgrade pcb's
I understand cheaper is always better! It all comes down to quantities, the more you can sell, the cheaper they can be. How many people race mini-z's?
I would suspect if they cost more than the car itself it would not go over very well. The cars cost $149? so that would be likely be an upper limit.
Our receivers are priced at $75 now, so that would be a lower bound.
nimble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.03.31, 10:05 PM   #5
arch2b
Moderator
 
arch2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,440
Send a message via AIM to arch2b
it all depends on how you market it as well. from what it sounds like, it's not just a tranponder but an upgraded electronics board which you said can provide longer run times and the ability to run faster motors. those seem like better selling points than just pushing it as a tranponder type system for racing. what it sounds like your product is, is more of a package deal which allows you to essentially have a built in transponder system for a particular timing system.

i have to admit that it sounds appealing. again, the overall ownership cost will be the sticking point.

what core has going for it is the relative cheap buy in and transponders that are a fraction of the cost of most others on the market. if they were to include trnaponders in products for example, it would come close to approaching your your product seems like it would be although the core system will do nothing for the electronics or performance aspect.

can you provide a simple example of how the system would work in general, without divulging any secrets? i knwo there are going to be some who have no experience with the amb system or how it operates.

is your electronics board including the amb type tranponder unit built in or are you using frequency much like ko propo?
arch2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.03.31, 10:35 PM   #6
nimble
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9
It is essentially like the existing KO PROPO setup.
We have our own sensor and decoder a track would need to buy to use the lap timing capability, but we output AMBrc compatible serial data so no special software is needed like CORE or KO Propo's system, any of the half-dozen race management software systems available will work to run the races.
In an AMBrc system, each transponder has a unique 7-digit ID that is transmitted along with the crossing time to the computer.
The radio would be our 2.4Ghz, we have modules for the M8, KO, and Futaba transmitters, or an upgrade can be hooked into any transmitter including the stock mini-z unit.
The FETs are upgraded.
We've done some prototype work on the board already, lots more work to do though.

I looked at some of the prices of upgrade parts, I saw a FET upgrade was $40 itself.
nimble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.03.31, 11:06 PM   #7
Mazda787b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 545
IF you can get it to work with CORE, you would have one hell of a product. Due to the high costs, not many people run the AMB system ($2000 for a decoder!).
__________________
There's no replacement for displacement.
Mazda787b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.03.31, 11:22 PM   #8
nimble
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda787b
IF you can get it to work with CORE, you would have one hell of a product. Due to the high costs, not many people run the AMB system ($2000 for a decoder!).
You don't need an AMB decoder, we have our own decoder that detects the cars. It hasn't been priced yet, but it would be close to the CORE system cost.
nimble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.03.31, 11:54 PM   #9
Mazda787b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimble
You don't need an AMB decoder, we have our own decoder that detects the cars. It hasn't been priced yet, but it would be close to the CORE system cost.
What about the LOOP? Counting software? How would people without the DART system be able to use this with their Zs?
__________________
There's no replacement for displacement.
Mazda787b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.04.01, 02:33 AM   #10
rharris
that Orange car is fast..
 
rharris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Whittier(LA county), California USA
Posts: 975
Send a message via Yahoo to rharris
It sounds really cool.

But you are going after many things at one time.

1. 2.4ghz - Freq management sucks, always has, always will. I would by your system for this alone. I currently run a Helios and I'd think nothing of upgrading a car and my radio just so I could race and not have to mess with the freq board.

2. Upgraded fets - Nice. But now we get into the whole, stock vrs open class problem. I'll have to be in the open class.

3. Telemetry - way cool. But it's an apple to Orange comparison with a CORE System. I just picked up my core system. I've got a club that has 25 registered members and is growing strong. Most of them are kids from 10 to 16. Money is a problem. It took months to get the majority to switch from Xmods ($60 per car) to a mini-z ($139 per car). Getting them to pay another $10 for a transponder is no big deal, but If I tell them they have to pay another $75 to $100 to race... Game Over.

I think you're onto something and I hope you can find the R&D money to pull it off. I'll buy one and I know the old guys in the club would line up to get one too. But for the kids, the majority of my club, it would fall outside of their price range.

Most of the guys I know who race 10th scale have well over $2000 into the hobby. So bottom line.. if it's cool enough, R/C guys will buy it.

... and kids grow up... to be R/C guys.

Good luck.
__________________

Come Race with us!!! Club Pics
rharris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.04.01, 04:10 AM   #11
HaCo
02-Racer
 
HaCo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgium - Holsbeek
Posts: 947
rharris,

I must agree with you, as we have the same problem. We have just bought the Robitronic Timing system, just because it isn't expensive. As we are a little club we can't afford us anything more...

nimmble,

The biggest problem I hear for boards, is that ppl want to use their own transmitter, and on the european market 27Mhz AM Tx are VERY limited, so if you are left handed or used to sticks, or you are looking for a good quality multi model Tx, choices are very small or even unexisting. That only would be a very nice feature.

Another thing that I miss from my 1/10th experience is the ESC setup ability. On my GM Racing V12 ESC I could setup brake %, auto-brake, current limit,... just by pushing a little button.

If you would make a system that have these 2 above features, I would be more then pleased and I wouldn't really care that there would be a transponder with it, but you never know it would become usefull... For such a ESC I would invest $75-$100 and I'm sure other ppl would too...

Happy to see that their are ppl that want to invest in Z, for me it's the best and simplest way to get involved into R/C Car Racing.

HaCo
HaCo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.04.01, 05:25 PM   #12
MDelaney20
Registered User
 
MDelaney20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Jose, Ca.
Posts: 4
Thumbs down

I would also be very intrested!!! Price? Up to $150 is what I'd pay. The positives way out weigh the negatives!!
__________________
A lotta People go through life doing things badly. Racings important to men who do it well. When your racing it's life. Anything else that happens before or after is just waiting.
MDelaney20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.04.02, 06:55 AM   #13
HaCo
02-Racer
 
HaCo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgium - Holsbeek
Posts: 947
The more I think of it, the more excited I get!

Espessialy when I see the module to upgrade an old radio! We Z-racers have a lot of radios around, because MiniZ is mainly sold over RTR kits (with high quality KO Propo Tx), so that wouldn't be a problem.
HaCo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.04.03, 10:06 AM   #14
Blackranger3d
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Please correct me if I am wrong, but basically it is about $600 for the counting system and then $75 - $100 per car to get up and racing.
Blackranger3d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006.04.03, 01:15 PM   #15
nimble
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackranger3d
Please correct me if I am wrong, but basically it is about $600 for the counting system and then $75 - $100 per car to get up and racing.
That's in the ballpark, the counting system would likely be much less if you are not including any transponders, we could probably also make a simpler less expensive one just for the mini-z, the 1/10th scale unit does a lot more than it would need to for the mini-z.

But realize this is not primarily a lap-counting system, it is a 2.4Ghz DSS radio and FET upgrade that comes with free lap counting if you get a lap-counter decode box. As a pure lap-counting system for a mini-z, it would be overkill. A RFID or infrared would be best suited to doing ONLY lap-counting.
If there wasn't so many other cheap options already we might consider making just a lap counting system, we developed both a RFID and infrared system for 1/10th scale but abandoned it for the integrated solution. RFID and infrared are not ideal for larger 1/10th scales in our experience.
nimble is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tutorial: How to Make a Cheap Personal Lap Timer Spoon Mini-Z Science 14 2011.05.09 12:12 PM
Personal lap timer counter CHEAP! 46u Lap Timing Systems and Software 10 2006.02.14 03:50 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts