Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2008.01.04, 07:20 PM   #1
wingbeat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17
a few Sinister build Q's

1. I purchased the TGR servo. The holes aren't lining up in the servo mounts.
Before I re-drill the servo tabs, I thought I'd check to make sure that it is fitting in properly. Is the body of the servo even with the bottom of the main chassis? The holes in the aluminum servo mount are about a hole width lower than the holes in the servo mount tabs.

2. Apparently I have a new differential from TGR I think made by 3 Racing. Is there an exploded drawing that might show the proper sequence of spacers and washers?

thanks- probably more questions as it progresses.

Last edited by wingbeat; 2008.01.04 at 07:25 PM.
wingbeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.04, 07:40 PM   #2
wes
Z racer
 
wes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 187
To answer your first question, my tgr servo and mounts were completely off. I had to cut out parts of the servo ears to make it sit right. The mounting holes on the aluminum servo mounts were higher on one side than the other this made the servo sit on an angle...
__________________
[COLOR=Yellow][FONT=Comic Sans MS
wes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.05, 12:47 AM   #3
Ancient Artist
Registered User
 
Ancient Artist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 50
...I am experiencing the same issue with two cars actually. Looks like a great car but there do seem to be some issues with the front end and setting up the servo.
It's a bit disappointing to think that when you purchase a servo put out by the manufacturer (though it is out sourced of course) that it wouldn't fit better. There is a small tutorial on the TGR website on the installation, but that doesn't excuse the issue with the holes just being drilled wrong. I still have high expectations for this car, but be careful never to run this car (even for a quick test) without a body. We stripped the servo gears in both cars in less than 5 minutes.
I admit (out of anxiousness) it may have been sloppy judgment on our parts to test 'em out that way; but Iíve done it hundreds of times with other cars and never had an issue. Sorry, but thatís pretty weak in my book. I've been racing for over 18 yrs (some sponsored by high level manufacturers), and ran just about everything somewhere along the way, and I don't think I ever experienced that before.
I could be missing something but I donít feel very confident in the support for these cars right now either. It's still new, so hopefully there will be more background coming for this car soon. My speculation is that I don't think anyone has been running it long enough (at least in the States) to thoroughly articulate troubleshooting the car yet with good answers.
Weíll see, and can only hope! (if not can you say SSSSssserpent ?)
Ancient Artist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.05, 11:32 AM   #4
wingbeat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17
thanks all.

the answer is in the website FAQ's- servo tabs need trimming.

Last edited by wingbeat; 2008.01.05 at 11:38 AM.
wingbeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.06, 12:22 PM   #5
wingbeat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17
o.k.- a little closer. The website guide is very good for servo install, but fit isn't up to par. I trimmed tabs, but now the aluminum servo blocks are a bit splayed. I'll have to possibly sand down servo case and ream holes a bit.

Anyway-
Problem and question 3 for TGR:

3. With the servo mounted, front end assembled, and steering linkage in place the servo arm is too far back for the rod end that acts as a connector to the steering linkage. I either need to make a custom servo arm that would extend further toward the front of the Sinister, or trim the rod end down.

I don't understand how this steering mechanism doesn't interfere with the front suspension. When the servo arm rotates right left, it is also moving the steering linkage up and down. My guess is the solution is to leave the steering linkage slightly loose to allow for that play. But as the servo arm rotates on a single plane, the steering linkage needs to not only move up and down, but back and forth along the horizontal plane. How is it possible to allow for that movement? If that movement isn't allowed for the suspension will be fighting the tension on the steering linkage in the horizontal plane even when the linkage is left with a bit of play vertically.
Perhaps some are using a servo arm with a bit of flex in it?

thanks- as you can tell, I'm picky and want to get the most out of this investment!
wingbeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.07, 10:30 AM   #6
Wolf
Registered User
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: ISTANBUL/TURKEY
Posts: 138
Dear All,

Problems and questions that you are having about steering are almost correct in every aspect. On the other hand I'd like to explain some design issues.

Sinister is a car which is focused 1/28 scale racing and targeted consumers from current racers. As a result we tried to maintain the design so that all racers could keep their investments as much as they can. Huge investment of current racers goes to;
- Ballbearing
- Balldiff
- Aluminum Knuckles

Our main problem is knuckles. If it would be possible for the first design, we would throw away those knuckles and start from scratch. However life is not so simple. While keeping current knuckles we tried to minimize freeplay on the front end and ended up with a really rigid front end with the cost of a torsion on the link and horn. But this torsion can be eliminated or reduced by
- Not overtightening the screw which connects servo horn and eyelet and enlarging the hole on the servo horn. This way your linkage will not always be horizontal to the ground
- Checking EPA from the TX
- Not lowering frontend more than needed. Raised knuckle may cause limited travel.


What we have done recently is; we've released our own knuckles which are compatible with MR02 but also they have option to use ball links, which reduces the stress alot. Not to mention you can select your own offset withouth changing your wheel.

Last but not the least; we frankly appreciate your feedbacks. Moreover there is nothing better than a customer who is picky and sincerely posting his/her comments on our products. This the best way to improvement.

Note;
- Never use your car without a hard body or a bumper. Just remember the reason why there are aluminum servo gears and aluminum servosavers even for MR01,MR02 etc

Regards
__________________
Sinister
Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.08, 11:51 AM   #7
Ancient Artist
Registered User
 
Ancient Artist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
Dear All,

Problems and questions that you are having about steering are almost correct in every aspect. On the other hand I'd like to explain some design issues.

Sinister is a car which is focused 1/28 scale racing and targeted consumers from current racers. As a result we tried to maintain the design so that all racers could keep their investments as much as they can. Huge investment of current racers goes to;
- Ballbearing
- Balldiff
- Aluminum Knuckles

Our main problem is knuckles. If it would be possible for the first design, we would throw away those knuckles and start from scratch. However life is not so simple. While keeping current knuckles we tried to minimize freeplay on the front end and ended up with a really rigid front end with the cost of a torsion on the link and horn. But this torsion can be eliminated or reduced by
- Not overtightening the screw which connects servo horn and eyelet and enlarging the hole on the servo horn. This way your linkage will not always be horizontal to the ground
- Checking EPA from the TX
- Not lowering frontend more than needed. Raised knuckle may cause limited travel.


What we have done recently is; we've released our own knuckles which are compatible with MR02 but also they have option to use ball links, which reduces the stress alot. Not to mention you can select your own offset withouth changing your wheel.

Last but not the least; we frankly appreciate your feedbacks. Moreover there is nothing better than a customer who is picky and sincerely posting his/her comments on our products. This the best way to improvement.

Note;
- Never use your car without a hard body or a bumper. Just remember the reason why there are aluminum servo gears and aluminum servosavers even for MR01,MR02 etc

Regards
I appreciate your feedback, and support. I had gone ahead and made the modifications you mentioned, before you posted this so at least I feel good that my thought process is aligned with yours.

As far as the servo goes, that is the reason why they make metal gears, but it's also why they sell replacement gears for the plastic servos as well. If you do not offer them, then do you (or anyone on the board) know of any that will fit? It's not that expensive of a servo, but neither is the HS-55, and they offer replacements on those. (I purchased a set to attempt to use as replacements, but they didn't work properly). For me to purchase two new servos vs. gears is the difference between $8 , and $30. I'm even willing to do an exchange and pay a discounted fee for new ones to at least help in the cost. I bought these cars from Atomic Mods, just a few weeks ago so maybe they can send them back to you or something...anything.

I do like this car and commend the work that you are putting into it
For the record Iím not here to bash you or the company either. I still think itís a good product even if thereís opportunity for improvements (what care doesnít have that?). I think you are setting the standard for the future of 1/28 scale racing, and have a great future, and opportunity going forward.
I'm just a bit disappointed that I would have to purchase two entirely new servos.
Yes, you put together a great package for the car, but these are not included with the kit and are a product you recommend at an additional cost.
Sure being a current racer I have parts laying around such as an HS-55, but at the end of the day, if I can't fix them I've thrown away $30.00.

Thanks again for your feedback, and ANY help from ANYONE would be greatly appreciated.
Ancient Artist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.08, 12:37 PM   #8
Davey G
Need a mini z Painted????
 
Davey G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,567
Send a message via MSN to Davey G
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient Artist
I appreciate your feedback, and support. I had gone ahead and made the modifications you mentioned, before you posted this so at least I feel good that my thought process is aligned with yours.

As far as the servo goes, that is the reason why they make metal gears, but it's also why they sell replacement gears for the plastic servos as well. If you do not offer them, then do you (or anyone on the board) know of any that will fit? It's not that expensive of a servo, but neither is the HS-55, and they offer replacements on those. (I purchased a set to attempt to use as replacements, but they didn't work properly). For me to purchase two new servos vs. gears is the difference between $8 , and $30. I'm even willing to do an exchange and pay a discounted fee for new ones to at least help in the cost. I bought these cars from Atomic Mods, just a few weeks ago so maybe they can send them back to you or something...anything.

I do like this car and commend the work that you are putting into it
For the record Iím not here to bash you or the company either. I still think itís a good product even if thereís opportunity for improvements (what care doesnít have that?). I think you are setting the standard for the future of 1/28 scale racing, and have a great future, and opportunity going forward.
I'm just a bit disappointed that I would have to purchase two entirely new servos.
Yes, you put together a great package for the car, but these are not included with the kit and are a product you recommend at an additional cost.
Sure being a current racer I have parts laying around such as an HS-55, but at the end of the day, if I can't fix them I've thrown away $30.00.

Thanks again for your feedback, and ANY help from ANYONE would be greatly appreciated.
This is the servo that I will be using in my Sinister, the specs are a touch better then the one you are speaking of. Check it out. http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V443293&pid=NBB200
__________________
Dave Graboski
DG Designs
www f******k com/dgraboskidesigns

Custom Paint, Custom Stickers, Wraps, Pitboards, Graphic Design

TEAM DRIVER FOR: PN RACING, TRP, TEAM SCREAM, DG DESIGNS
Davey G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.08, 01:02 PM   #9
ruf
4play
 
ruf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Reflex Racing, everywhere
Posts: 2,602
barf. bluebird cirrus etc are not my faves. Their specs are bs in my opinion. So slow. Try a Futaba. Not that expensive, and they run great. If you want to go all out, pick up a KO digital.
__________________
Joe Chen
www.reflexracing.net
Houston, TX
Mini-Z World Champions!
Reflex Racing Blog
Reflex Racing YouTube
ruf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.08, 01:27 PM   #10
Davey G
Need a mini z Painted????
 
Davey G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,567
Send a message via MSN to Davey G
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruf
barf. bluebird cirrus etc are not my faves. Their specs are bs in my opinion. So slow. Try a Futaba. Not that expensive, and they run great. If you want to go all out, pick up a KO digital.
Just giving out other options. The older bluebird analog stuff wasnt all that spectacular....I agree, the new digital stuff has been really good in my 1/10th scale stuff though, so this is what I am basing this off of.
__________________
Dave Graboski
DG Designs
www f******k com/dgraboskidesigns

Custom Paint, Custom Stickers, Wraps, Pitboards, Graphic Design

TEAM DRIVER FOR: PN RACING, TRP, TEAM SCREAM, DG DESIGNS
Davey G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.08, 01:43 PM   #11
ruf
4play
 
ruf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Reflex Racing, everywhere
Posts: 2,602
Cool. Let us know how they run. I'm always open to new developments.
__________________
Joe Chen
www.reflexracing.net
Houston, TX
Mini-Z World Champions!
Reflex Racing Blog
Reflex Racing YouTube
ruf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.08, 01:46 PM   #12
wes
Z racer
 
wes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 187
Futaba s3154... a local racer let me try his out and it's a very solid servo. The speed and response of the steering feels like a 1/10 car. It's slightly more expensive, but it's definitely worth it, and you can replace the gears easily.
__________________
[COLOR=Yellow][FONT=Comic Sans MS
wes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.09, 03:44 AM   #13
Wolf
Registered User
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: ISTANBUL/TURKEY
Posts: 138
The reason why we are not providing spare gears is the cost of the gears will be almost the same with the servo. Since we are not only manufacturer but also hobbiest and racer, we know how we think about these kind of prices as a consumer.

Our contacts with the manufacturer still continues and we are trying to settle a better aggreement for this issue.

As an additional comment; what we add to our catalog becomes standart in our cars. We don't like to be a company, who releases a product and its options within same month. I guess you understand what we mean. For example from the date new knuckles announced we've shipped all cars with new knuckle system system. This was the same with steering system. It will be same for friction also. We're revising the upper deck for the friction damper and easier battery access. New updated car most probably will have the friction damper as a standart.

PS: And yes. This message implies new updates on the car Stay tuned
__________________
Sinister

Last edited by Wolf; 2008.01.09 at 04:02 AM.
Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.10, 12:07 AM   #14
Ancient Artist
Registered User
 
Ancient Artist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 50
Thumbs down

Thanks Wolf !
I personally appreciate your efforts. It's easy to forget that it takes time for some of this stuff to be worked out.

JUST GIVE ME THE SHIP DATE FOR ALL THESE NEW GOODIES AND WE'LL CALL IT A DAY !

l8r,
A2
Ancient Artist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008.01.11, 11:08 PM   #15
wingbeat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
...we've released our own knuckles which are compatible with MR02 but also they have option to use ball links, which reduces the stress alot. ...

Any tips on how to set-up with ball links? Pics anyone?

As I understand a 2mm screw holds the rod on the knuckle. This rod is replaced with a ball with a 2mm threaded post- where can I get this and the corresponding link hardware?

And do you use a double ball on the servo arm or another method?

thanks!
wingbeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: TGR Sinister Chassis NIB El Tigre Mini-Z Marketplace 0 2008.08.28 10:06 PM
Sinister driving tudor_47 TGR 3 2008.03.10 11:46 AM
TGR Hurda Challenge UK Jonny Stafford Mini Z Racers England 79 2008.02.01 04:02 PM
TGR Sinister Chassis and TGR Sinister Pro Chassis Kel Parts and Hop-ups 36 2007.10.11 02:28 AM
How To Build A Roof Rack 2 arch2b Mini-Z Overland MV-01 6 2003.11.13 02:35 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts