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Old 2008.04.02, 04:42 AM   #1
cjm_2007
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carpet!

alright

I've been quiet for a while, but the bug has bitten me again

my loft track hasn't seen a lot of use because the chipboard racing surface is very inconsistent. so i've been looking at a number of track surface options.

regupol is difficult to get hold of, and to cover an area of 25 square metres, i was quoted 215. this was sometime last year.

I called the distributors for primafelt (the BRCA standard carpet surface) and they do have odd rolls - the smallest of which is 20m long and 4m wide - at a tidy price of 100 + vat and delivery.

would any fellow mini-z'ers fancy buying up whatever I have left over? it'll be quite a bit.

I've raced 1/10th scale saloons on the same carpet, and the grip levels are quite realistic - as in, lively but controllable, but not 'on rails'.

it seems a bit of a waste to buy the roll to only use less than a third...
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Old 2008.04.07, 02:52 PM   #2
cjm_2007
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the carpet distributors managed to find me a 28 square metre roll

I've given up on RCP for now - I simply cannot find anywhere in the UK that sells it, and no USA hobby stores will export
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Old 2008.04.07, 03:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm_2007 View Post
the carpet distributors managed to find me a 28 square metre roll

I've given up on RCP for now - I simply cannot find anywhere in the UK that sells it, and no USA hobby stores will export
FYI - the folks at RCP told me to buy through the shop here to get delivery into Canada.
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Old 2008.04.08, 05:22 PM   #4
cjm_2007
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it's alright mate, i ordered the primaGT carpet and it was delivered this morning.

six hours after starting work in the loft (most of which was shifting the cr&p around), the carpet is laid:



this stuff looks very grippy indeed. i'm nowhere near ready to run yet, but it requires a lot of effort to push the car sideways with my finger, which is a good sign.

next step is creating a layout. fortunately there's just enough carpet left for an elevated section

the main straight is 5.5m long & i'm going for 790mm lane width (30 inches).

the space measures 5.5 by 4.5 with a hatch taking up at least 1 square metre.

Last edited by cjm_2007; 2008.04.08 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 2008.04.09, 07:14 AM   #5
Jonny
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He's Back!

Hi Craig, it's great to hear you're back into the Z's again - god knows I've tried to get you to race again after you delved into buying an MR-02 and parts

I am now running a club just outside Cambridgeshire with a great group of guys (and girl) on the RCP with Core Timing, you'd be welcome anytime mate, I know you're a way away though - still a road trip now and again?! We run all day 9am - 6pm, so plenty of racing to be had.

I'm real pleased that you've now got your loft laid with a surface, I'm sure that will work a treat and provide you with some nice layout options. It turns out that I can now get the RCP into the UK for you easily aswell as any other small scale related items I'll shoot you an E-Mail.

Keep us up to date with your project,

Bye mate, Jonny
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Old 2008.04.09, 08:23 AM   #6
cjm_2007
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long time no speak fella

i had a good time in stafford - cambs is just a teeny bit too far for a day though! the missus would skin me alive - with the motorbikes and surfing, she doesn't get to see me much as it is!

if she does go abroad on business though (likely) I may well take you up on that offer. I really do miss organized competition.

i didn't know you could get hold of RCP! i think that for my loft space, the prima-felt was the most cost effective solution for me though. and it accurately simulates what i'd be racing on if I ever got back in to 1/10th TC.

the track is a project really, getting it together is good fun. I'm hoping that the new surface delivers. if it all works out, I may consider inviting fellow mini-z runners to come along and try it out for an afternoon.

you wouldn't know where I could lay my hands on some lap timing equipment would ya?
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Old 2008.04.09, 09:48 AM   #7
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Hi mate, I agree for a loft space if you can spare the room, I reckon you've done well. I personally can get 1.5 Wide L's in my loft and a friend has 1 in his but you're still limited layout wise. There is always the Mini 96 but you lose lane width and gain extra freedom layout wise. I sent you a PM this morning but I guess you didn't get it - check your inbox here. If not try PM'ing or mailing me through here - I'm sure I can help you out. By the way, I'm with you on the distance but it's always worth it

We'll speak soon, Jonny
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Old 2008.04.13, 07:37 AM   #8
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first run on the carpet

the track is 'finished' for now - i've had to use pipe insulation, halved along the length, which is held down with gaffer tape. it's not ideal, but it does allow for compound curves and the material has a lot of give during impacts - which it turns out is a very good thing...

I don't know if i'm running the wrong tyres (gpm 20degree slicks front and rear) but the handling can be best described as 'tricky' on this carpet.

it's still a million miles better than the chipboard surface I was running on before, but not as much grip as i'd hoped.

in some ways it's good, as it'll get me back to my old smoother habits. but wide open throttle is only possible at two places on my track. I'm running an atomic BB stock motor which demands respect with my current setup.

I could really do with more rear end grip though. time to get messing with the setup I think. the balance is there on part throttle but under accelleration the torque from the motor is easily enough to kick out the back end and spin the car if the throttle isn't shut in time. the lift-off oversteer that plagued the old chipboard surface has gone though thankfully

I don't want to go with foams, as these won't be realistic.
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Old 2008.04.13, 11:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm_2007 View Post
the track is 'finished' for now - i've had to use pipe insulation, halved along the length, which is held down with gaffer tape. it's not ideal, but it does allow for compound curves and the material has a lot of give during impacts - which it turns out is a very good thing...

I don't know if i'm running the wrong tyres (gpm 20degree slicks front and rear) but the handling can be best described as 'tricky' on this carpet.

it's still a million miles better than the chipboard surface I was running on before, but not as much grip as i'd hoped.

in some ways it's good, as it'll get me back to my old smoother habits. but wide open throttle is only possible at two places on my track. I'm running an atomic BB stock motor which demands respect with my current setup.

I could really do with more rear end grip though. time to get messing with the setup I think. the balance is there on part throttle but under accelleration the torque from the motor is easily enough to kick out the back end and spin the car if the throttle isn't shut in time. the lift-off oversteer that plagued the old chipboard surface has gone though thankfully

I don't want to go with foams, as these won't be realistic.
You can try this carpet tire http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/s...e75cc95f73cc60

I recommend CSR06 or CRR06 on rear, CSF20 or CSF15 on front
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Old 2008.04.13, 02:15 PM   #10
cjm_2007
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nice one. i've ordered some of the radial and vgroove tyres from rckenon.

the shipping was almost as much as the tyres themselves
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Old 2008.04.17, 06:45 PM   #11
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it's coming together. thanks to jonny for the atomic tyres - amazing grip

the most difficult part of the build was working out how to make the best use of the space, and how to actually mark the track out once i'd settled on a design.

i first tried pipe insulation halved down each length, to make a semi-circle profile, held down with gaffer tape. this was fine for about five minutes, but the tape kept coming up. so in the bin it went.

I browsed around various track pics on here, and i found a fella who'd set up a track using fatigue mats in his basement. to mark out the track he'd used something which looked like neoprene foam; I phoned around but the materials I got quoted for were silly money. eventually i found a foam supplier who could quote and supply online. (www.e-foam.co.uk i think). i ordered 40m of 40mm x 30mm packaging foam, and went to work.

using double sided carpet tape to secure the foam meant that compound curves were pretty easy with a bit of patience. I also tinkered with the layout a bit, and i'm very pleased. the only problem is the stickyness of the tape itself - i'll have to get hold of something sticker, because with my mclaren bodyshell, the borders can be lifted easily during certain impacts.

lighting:


curves


construction


i'll sort out a composite image of the entire track when I can be bothered to boot up photoshop on my desktop PC
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Old 2008.04.17, 11:00 PM   #12
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looks cool,glad you like the if you need more grip on the back we have the 10deg competitions(same as the aw but lines cut into them)
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Old 2008.04.18, 02:49 AM   #13
cjm_2007
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i'll bear that in mind mate

i've got the grooved tyres on the back (10 or 20 deg i think). the grip is just phenomenal - out of the last turn (a double apex sweeper) I can absolutely pin the throttle. those tyres remind me of wine gums left on a dashboard on a sunny day in june!

i like the rounded edges too, they progressively let go rather than snap. superb tyres. i'd imagine that on RCP the car would probably grip roll.
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Old 2008.04.18, 04:44 AM   #14
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Loft Track

The track looks just superb Craig, great job in sourcing, planning and constructing.

Glad you like the Atomics, there will always be arguments over 'my tyre's better than yours' and grip/makeup of compound vs durability but we have most consistency with this range on RCP. We only run carpet usually in Germany for the 12 hour and they work just perfectly, not to say there aren't longer lasting tyres out there for sure.

Jonny
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Old 2008.04.19, 12:01 PM   #15
cjm_2007
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I had my first proper runs today

overnight, the temperature / humidity variation had caused the double-sided carpet tape to lose adhesion in places. as soon as the car hit the foam, it'd slide underneath.

so off to B&Q (the equivalent of home depot) I went. my plan was to use thin wooden batons to go over the foam, hammered down in a sort of sandwich. but in the nail isle they had small zinc plated 'safety washers'. I got the nails (50mm long, and 50x washers.

a nail plus a washer works rather nicely.


the coolest thing about the foam is not having to worry about damaging the bodyshell on impact. if anything, the foam borders actually polish the shell

the missus tried filming me lapping around, but the memory card on the camera was already full; anyway, here's my hamfisted attempt at a composite image of the track:


i've gone through 3 sets of cells this afternoon, and i'm pretty pleased. the lane width is about 28" at the moment; I am considering widening it for a higher average speed, although the track does flow nicely as it is. I designed it with scope for easy widening if I do decide to open it out. I haven't properly timed a lap yet, but it's probably somewhere between 10 - 14 secs per lap. with the atomic 10 degree rears & 20 degree fronts, the car is totally planted at the rear, with a hint of understeer - I'm thinking about going to 30 on the rear just to make it a bit less 'tame'.
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