Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2009.01.07, 05:35 PM   #1
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
New Parts/Designs for MRCG

I've been designing some new parts recently for the MRCG. They may or not make it to production, but at the very least I plan to prototype these and test them out.


New flex plates and rear pod lower plate:



In theory, with these longer but thicker flex plates, we'll get more bump stiffness, while maintaining the same roll resistance. The addition of a second mounting screw on the rear pod keeps the flex plates aligned even in a bad crash.


Rocker-arm dynamic strut system:





Very similar to a 1/12 front suspension, just packaged a bit differently. Springs are mounted on threaded nuts/perches for infinite preload adjustment. Adds 2 degrees of caster for stability, but at the same time reduces stiction and adds a small amount of dynamic caster and camber for more steering. Approx. 8mm lower than the standard front suspension. Compatible with standard MR02 knuckles, and uses a similar tierod mounting style as the InZane P28. Servo strap makes a nice place to put a Giro-Z transponder. I'm very excited to try this out, it won't cost a lot to manufacture but the potential is enormous.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog

Last edited by color01; 2009.01.07 at 05:40 PM.
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.07, 05:39 PM   #2
atallfunguy
Type less Drive More
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: santa clara, ca
Posts: 96
B,

Looks promising.
atallfunguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.08, 12:37 AM   #3
Slipstream
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 189
What are the front upper arms pivoting on? Screws through elastic bushings? You can look at my Scalpel if you want to get ideas. It very similar.
Slipstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.08, 01:21 AM   #4
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
Right on the mark, Willie, the pivot's formed by two silicone o-rings and a screw. I don't think there's enough suspension travel used to warrant a ball nut/stud, so I took the simpler route. I'm still looking around to see if there's a better small-size pivot with more travel (there's enough like this, but more would be nice) but for now this is OK. I'm trying to figure out a better steering setup that has more accurate Ackerman control and is less susceptible to servo horn flex.



I have the Scalpel manual, so I know how its front suspension works. What do you think of it though, is it sensitive to spring changes and precise enough for racing?
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog

Last edited by color01; 2009.01.08 at 01:30 AM.
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.08, 01:52 AM   #5
Slipstream
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 189
What I would be concerned with is if the durometer of the elastic pieces are stiffer than the spring someone is using then the it renders the spring useless. The softest you can get the front end is how much you can compress those bushings. If you use too soft bushings then they won't locate and hold the arm very well.

The scalpel is a larger scale and the arms are longer so springs and bushings can be stiffer and there's more leverage to compress its bushings. I don't how this would translate shrunken to mini z size.

On the 12th scale AE front end a pivot pin on the upper arm is used so there is no resistance other than the friction between the pin and arm (polish your pins )

From your pictures it looks like you just have to machine the arms and everything else can be off the shelf (Ok chassis mod require) so you can try it.

I guess you looked into the Xray M18 and decided against the pivot ball method.
Slipstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.08, 02:31 AM   #6
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
The bushings are pretty hard, but I picked a size that offers as little resistance as possible to the arm's movement.

Pivot balls take up too much space, I have an idea that involves pins but it means custom-machined aluminum parts. It may be necessary though so I'll keep churning out designs. A full-on dynamic strut system is not a bad idea at all.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.08, 12:20 PM   #7
jetnjme
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22
That looks very nice.
jetnjme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.09, 09:02 PM   #8
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
I have figured out a way to use hinge pins with this new suspension idea. However, it is an absolute pain to CAD. So while I let that design sit, here is the wide front end (WFE, to avoid saying WTF ) set designed for the MRCG.



The set includes the upper bar, two lower L-arms and a longer tierod. This wide front end adds 1.5mm of effective offset for more responsive handling, and then adds 2 degrees of caster for smoother handling and more aggressive corner exit steering.

I chose to use 1.5mm offset instead of 2mm (i.e. Reflex's WTF) so that you can use 0N instead of -1N front rims with currently popular racing bodies (SC430, Super GT 350Z, etc). 0N rims are far easier to find so I took the 0.5mm compromise.

With +1N front rims this front end will work with the pan cars and the new longtail McLaren F1's. With -1N rims the chassis will fit under pretty much any MR02 body.

This wide front end set will definitely be prototyped, but again production is a big ??? mark.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.10, 08:00 PM   #9
eztuner12
Do you want to go fasst??
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Miami FL./ Sto Dgo, Dom Rep.(The Jungle)
Posts: 1,867
Hi Brian
Looking good, this could well be a front-end system for your 4WD project.
Regarding the arms bushings (red on the blueprint) arenít these going to generate said to said and front to rear movement plus wear-out due to friction?
Perchance a pivot ball as the ones on the steering system will control these undesirable movements & wear-out and just move up & down, as you want.
Cheers
eztuner12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.11, 04:06 AM   #10
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
*Shrug* I don't know, but after talking to PN about the costs of producing so many small parts commercially, I'm certain that my dynamic strut front suspension won't make it to market. Looks like I got carried away designing useless stuff. Which means I don't have any more reason to prototype it, as I have to keep my testing to items/parts that I can give to you guys. I.e. the standard front end, etc.

The wide front end upgrade is much more likely to be produced, but it's only going to happen if all the MRCG kits currently in stock get sold out, and on top of that there's enough demand for a WFT kit. Otherwise I or PN or anyone else can't justify making such a small run of special parts.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.11, 10:17 AM   #11
eztuner12
Do you want to go fasst??
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Miami FL./ Sto Dgo, Dom Rep.(The Jungle)
Posts: 1,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
*Shrug* I don't know, but after talking to PN about the costs of producing so many small parts commercially, I'm certain that my dynamic strut front suspension won't make it to market. Looks like I got carried away designing useless stuff. Which means I don't have any more reason to prototype it, as I have to keep my testing to items/parts that I can give to you guys. I.e. the standard front end, etc.

The wide front end upgrade is much more likely to be produced, but it's only going to happen if all the MRCG kits currently in stock get sold out, and on top of that there's enough demand for a WFT kit. Otherwise I or PN or anyone else can't justify making such a small run of special parts.
Perhaps there is a factory in China that world certainly do this parts less costly
Cheers man
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/yqhardware

http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/c-service...QAdIdZ93192174

http://www.onerateads.com/RC-370.htm

http://www.onerateads.com/RC-370.htm

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/RC_Parts.html

http://www.manufacturers.com.tw/show...98-4-5-0-0.php

Many more on the net!

Last edited by eztuner12; 2009.01.11 at 10:40 AM.
eztuner12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.11, 01:12 PM   #12
skyler
Registered User
 
skyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 145
MRCG demand

Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
*Shrug* I don't know, but after talking to PN about the costs of producing so many small parts commercially, I'm certain that my dynamic strut front suspension won't make it to market. Looks like I got carried away designing useless stuff. Which means I don't have any more reason to prototype it, as I have to keep my testing to items/parts that I can give to you guys. I.e. the standard front end, etc.

The wide front end upgrade is much more likely to be produced, but it's only going to happen if all the MRCG kits currently in stock get sold out, and on top of that there's enough demand for a WFT kit. Otherwise I or PN or anyone else can't justify making such a small run of special parts.
Brain, RC Kenon has been sold out of your car for weeks now. I hope they produce more kits
skyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.01.11, 03:43 PM   #13
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
Ah I just noticed that, thanks Skyler.

Richard- Of the ~45 MRCG's currently out on the market, maybe 5 of the customers will want a WFT set enough to pay for one. So... production seems highly unlikely, and looking for a manufacturer won't do me much good (except for a prototype, maybe, but I have my own CNC mill!).
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.03.07, 04:37 PM   #14
skyler
Registered User
 
skyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 145
Mrcg ii

Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
*Shrug* I don't know, but after talking to PN about the costs of producing so many small parts commercially, I'm certain that my dynamic strut front suspension won't make it to market. Looks like I got carried away designing useless stuff. Which means I don't have any more reason to prototype it, as I have to keep my testing to items/parts that I can give to you guys. I.e. the standard front end, etc.

The wide front end upgrade is much more likely to be produced, but it's only going to happen if all the MRCG kits currently in stock get sold out, and on top of that there's enough demand for a WFT kit. Otherwise I or PN or anyone else can't justify making such a small run of special parts.
Hi Brian, Phillip doesn't want to make a bunch of extra small parts but what if you released another complete car with your new ideas?

Last edited by skyler; 2009.03.14 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Because it's not MY decision.
skyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.03.31, 08:48 AM   #15
lillesmurf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1
A-arm 1/12 front suspension

I am not running 1/28 yet but have seen the MRCG which has a lot of good ideas. I am just waiting for my local club getting to a new place where we also can get a mini z/1:28 track.

My thought is that the PN Racing Mini-Z MR02 Double A-Arm Front Suspension can make the MRCG much more like a 1/12 car?

Have you tried it? and also how many grams are you then adding if you can get it modified to the MRCG?

I dont now how this would affect the camber, bump stear or other thing in the front!
lillesmurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts