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Old 2009.07.27, 07:55 PM   #46
color01
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Optimization makes things a lot more expensive... look at 1/10 TC, just 5 years ago the plastic-tubbed shaft-driven AE TC3 was still a winner. I'm sure these new spurs are worth it though, I just bought a machined Delrin pinion and the difference vs. the molded ones is already evident. Machined spur to match it would be ace-- just waiting for my next paycheck.



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Originally Posted by spakey View Post
I've had designs for a diff like this for years but have never found a carbon rod that's within tolerances... I suppose with enough initial investment you could have them custom made, but I definitely haven't built up the funds to swing it yet. The rest of the job seems straightforward, just put them together like 1/12 diffs.
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Old 2009.07.27, 10:28 PM   #47
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I have some ideas about a CF shaft, it is just not within the pricing structure that we are looking for. The price of the shaft in the link is expensive, 22.00 is much higher than the PN shaft which is already high at 14.00. Optimization does make the hobby more expensive, but at Reflex, part of our philosophy has always been to make the hobby more affordable. Sometimes this means a slightly higher initial price, but much longer life span, and sometimes it means cheaper and higher quality. I prefer the later
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Old 2009.07.27, 11:57 PM   #48
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I could go on for hours here on this one, I'll spare you the boredom. If it is going to be more expensive than Al then Mg is the way to go, Durability, ultra light weight and ease of machining are its high points.
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Old 2009.07.28, 03:40 PM   #49
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Good deal ct, I'm sure we'll all keep an
eye out for that.

Optimization is more expensive but jeez
there has to be a cap or else people
wouldn't adopt it... *cough* PS3 *cough*

I used to think 30 was the limit on a
good ball diff, but it has since doubled...

Nowdays 50 would actually be reasonable...

Try to reel people in, not push them
out lol.

-----

I thought the discussion was headed towards
cheaper alternatives...

Aren't magnesium alloy chips highly flammable?

Wouldn't that make them more of a hassle to
machine?

Also, with the shaft directly rubbing on the bearings
creating dust, would that be a good idea as it sits
next to the motor?

It is an interesting thought though.


parts
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Old 2009.07.28, 03:58 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
I could go on for hours here on this one, I'll spare you the boredom. If it is going to be more expensive than Al then Mg is the way to go, Durability, ultra light weight and ease of machining are its high points.
magnesium is not easy to machine!! it will actually catch on fire if the speeds and feeds are not exact. most magnesium products are molded and then maybe lightly machined. and its fumes are toxic!! i think bang for the buck is aluminum, its ultra cheap and easy to machine.
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Old 2009.07.29, 12:09 AM   #51
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I am more that willing to defer to the authority on this issue, and agree with you and your technical analysis over the issues wit Mg. My thought is that if you are going to have a 22.00 axle if cf and a 14.00 axle of Al then as magnesium is about 25-40% more than aluminum that it seemed in the ballpark. The comment about machining is that other alloys, more expensive alloys, are not going to yield a better performing product , share problems with machined magnesium as far as swarf goes but in my view nothing performs better for our circumstances. I have had more than 100 CF 10th/12th/18th scale axles fail on me while I was trying to build a tamiya ball diff for the road wizard. Yes it was years ago and the glues and techniques are better but the product at CF really isn't and in my view is clearly a wear item and expensive wear item. Magnesium, get one and the your done. So the ease of machining was based solely on the thought that there are other materials out there that machine with more difficulty than Mg and that was my point from information I got from the Mg machinists who used to build my oval cars by hand.
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Old 2009.07.29, 09:39 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by MantisMMA View Post
magnesium is not easy to machine!! it will actually catch on fire if the speeds and feeds are not exact. most magnesium products are molded and then maybe lightly machined. and its fumes are toxic!! i think bang for the buck is aluminum, its ultra cheap and easy to machine.
Do you think alum 2mm threads would hold up? I would want steel threads for the wheel nuts personally.
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Old 2009.07.29, 10:26 AM   #53
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They will hold up, they do on the PN shaft. They do on 1/10th scale buggies, trucks and Pan Cars. The issue is simply not overtightening these cars as they are small and easy to strip due to the force that some people use on the nuts and bolts.
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Old 2009.07.29, 10:30 AM   #54
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They will hold up, they do on the PN shaft. They do on 1/10th scale buggies, trucks and Pan Cars. The issue is simply not overtightening these cars as they are small and easy to strip due to the force that some people use on the nuts and bolts.
Which PN shafts are alum? I thought they were all steel? I'm guessing the new ultra light one?
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Old 2009.07.29, 12:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
I am more that willing to defer to the authority on this issue, and agree with you and your technical analysis over the issues wit Mg. My thought is that if you are going to have a 22.00 axle if cf and a 14.00 axle of Al then as magnesium is about 25-40% more than aluminum that it seemed in the ballpark. The comment about machining is that other alloys, more expensive alloys, are not going to yield a better performing product , share problems with machined magnesium as far as swarf goes but in my view nothing performs better for our circumstances. I have had more than 100 CF 10th/12th/18th scale axles fail on me while I was trying to build a tamiya ball diff for the road wizard. Yes it was years ago and the glues and techniques are better but the product at CF really isn't and in my view is clearly a wear item and expensive wear item. Magnesium, get one and the your done. So the ease of machining was based solely on the thought that there are other materials out there that machine with more difficulty than Mg and that was my point from information I got from the Mg machinists who used to build my oval cars by hand.
everything you say is true but i think one of the issues with all of this is that market for miniz axles is not going to warrant reflex having a Mg cast made because machining from bar stock would not be efficient at the quantities needed. now if Ct wants to make 500 axles that would be a different story but it would prob take 4 years to sell that many axles! As stated by CT as long as you dont overtighten the axles you wont have issues with the Al. some people still use the stock plastic wheel nuts!
as far as the CF shaft is concerned, i think that i could be done within reason but honestly if it does not end up being lighter than aluminum than why bother? a lighter shaft makes less of a difference than say lightweight diff plates or balls because they rotate at a higher rate of momentum. ie switching from SS balls to ceramic balls makes a bigger diff than switching from a SS axle to an Al axle in acceleration. this is one of the reasons the QTEC parts make such a big difference!
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Old 2009.07.29, 03:31 PM   #56
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Well put Mr. Marcus!!!

The reason why I am contemplating making an axle is simply because of economies of scale. The more of them I make, the cheaper I can sell them for, and the cheaper a truly "Ultimate" differential kit for sale will be. I don't want to just release another shaft though. I am looking at it from different angles to see if it is possible to build a better one. One possibility is to integrate a true thrust bearing into the diff. This will make the differential action even more consistent than what it is today. We are playing around with different designs right now, so don't hold your breath waiting for it, as it might be a while.

On the good news side, I just heard yesterday that our diff rings are almost finished. These are being made by the same factory that makes our bearings, so the quality qill be second to none. Another good thing: The Price!!! I am looking at about $3.00/pr...
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Old 2009.07.29, 04:12 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
Which PN shafts are alum? I thought they were all steel? I'm guessing the new ultra light one?
Yup, the new orangey/burnt anodized one is aluminum.
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Old 2009.07.30, 11:55 AM   #58
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Marcus. I agree.
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Old 2009.07.31, 09:38 PM   #59
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tried the spurs. they are great.fit a little snug on the pn alumn shaft...but with a little work. perfect! super quiet,also. i'm running a 13t pinion on pn70t super fast.
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Old 2009.07.31, 10:25 PM   #60
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So I have spent some time today looking at the gears I got and Marcus and CT, they are awesome. Just exactly the way they should be. Now if you guys are going to bring out other sizes, can I dye them to easily ID the different sizes or will it negatively affect the strength of the Delrin you guys used.

Great innovation for racing.
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