Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts

Go Back   Mini-ZRacer.com Forums > Manufacturers > Reflex Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 2009.10.15, 02:41 AM   #16
Rune
Mini-Z Norway
 
Rune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfcparts View Post
R, I’m not sure where I mentioned that the rr bearing sets
weren’t a good value or how they came into the thread since
we were talking about thrust bearings lol… I’ll take
your measurements with a grain of salt; the simple test for me is
basically to spin the wheel or diff you put on. With that being
said and trying out the rr sets...
No problem. I just responded on the other bearings mentioned

Regarding the temp measures I just did them for fun, and were surprised to see that bearings that seems to spin as easy does heat up differently.
I think this can be due the tolerances. I think the main difference in friction is when they are loaded from the side. This is hard to test out with just spinning the wheels with your hand.
__________________
PN Racing Team Driver

Mini-Z Norway
Rune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.15, 04:32 PM   #17
pfcparts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 628
Fair enough.

I didn’t say my test was the best, but it works for me.
You can notice the difference between ceramics and normal
bearings by just running them…

Unless you run those bearings at a constant rate and apply
controlled side loads and measure temps instead of random
laps with numerous variables which will never be the same,
I don’t see how your current measurements could shift my
opinion as opposed to my own simpler way...

I had some different coffee this morning that was recommended
by a friend and was tasty, but it wasn’t as chilly as yesterday so
being that the other coffee didn’t feel as hot, I think the new
coffee is better than the other coffees available because I can
recommend that coffee as my buddy drinks it and he is a
coffee connoisseur who happens to sell me the said coffee…

My coffee buddy doesn't recommend vanilla in coffee but now
offers vanilla shots in coffee and now recommends it so it is the
bomb.

C’mon man.

I’m still trying to get around how something that is better to
begin with could possibly be worse than something else similar
that was inferior to begin with when both would (or should)
experience the same exact loads…

That being said lol, I’ll leave it there as this thread has gone way
off tangent (mea culpa) and it has taken away from what are
probably very good products.


parts
__________________
pfcparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.15, 09:36 PM   #18
CristianTabush
Registered User
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
I don't understand what you are trying to get to, but if you are referring to me saying ceramics are not necessary, I still stand by it, so long as it is one of the 7 standard replacement bearings. You won't be able to tell the difference on the track with ceramics. I could release a bearing set that was all ceramic, but then it would be in the 40 dollar range... Would they be better than what we currently offer? Perhaps marginally.

Some people can justify the price difference, based on the depth of their pockets, but in our business model, at Reflex, they do not justify the cost-to-benefit ratio. To top that, our steel bearings are purpose-manufactured for us by our factory. I selected the materials, the shield type, lube type and the rating on them. This obviously makes them more expensive than regular steel bearings, but also far superior, so much that we are willing to put them up against any manufacturer's ceramic bearings besides Reflex's bearings to demonstrate their much higher "bang for the buck".

With that said, this bearing replaces the bearing that is installed on the differential though, (the one that comes from the factory, which many people never even think about) and it does make a WORLD of a difference when it comes to side loading capabilities. In turn, it also provides more consistent and smoother differential action. This is something that I started playing with some time ago and I just needed to find the right bearing to get the most consistent and smooth feel. Once I found it, I tweaked a couple of things and ordered a batch to be manufactured for me...

Are they more expensive? Yes. But remember these are "option" or "specialty" parts that add to people's enjoyment of the hobby. You need not have them for your car to run. Especially if you are not racing. Reflex is about racing and about pushing the envelope CONSTANTLY. That's how we stay at the front of the pack. If we did not push it and look for ways to make our equipment better, we wouldn't be doing our job.
__________________
Cristian Tabush
REFLEX RACING USA
10 Time Mini-Z World Champions!!!
http://www.reflexracing net
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.16, 12:00 PM   #19
Felix2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 982
CT - Are your new 3x6x2.5 differential "thrust" bearings really abec-7? That's pretty cool.

Not to go off-topic too much, I just want to ask - Your Reflex High-Quality steel MR02 bearings are abec-3, correct? I believe you mentioned this before but I just would like to confirm. Thanks
Felix2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.16, 01:02 PM   #20
CristianTabush
Registered User
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
No, our bearing kits are Abec 5, hence the reason why they are as fast an in many cases faster than the available ceramics in the Market.
__________________
Cristian Tabush
REFLEX RACING USA
10 Time Mini-Z World Champions!!!
http://www.reflexracing net
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.16, 01:29 PM   #21
MantisMMA
tire schredder
 
MantisMMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfcparts View Post
Not one day my friend…

I emailed you last month (24th), and was told the gears would
be done early the next week… I didn’t get anything from
you since then and we are now closing in on the 03 debut.

The fact that they came late doesn’t bother me as things
happen out of your control, but at least give me a heads up
if you told me otherwise. I let it slide after once, but
since it has happened twice... c'mon man.

None of the shops I frequent pull that and if they do have a
discrepancy somewhere, they usually let me know; even with
the language barrier and differing time zones and whatnot. I
know with their international sales they run through a huge
volume of orders, they run their own events, and god knows
what else they do, but they still give me that common
courtesy at the least...

Your in-house stuff seems pretty cool and I haven't been
disappointed with the stuff I bought before, but work
with me...

-----

parts

i can take the blame for the spurs taking longer than expected since i am making them. they were late because we found a better way to make them but i had to make numerous fixtures to make it work and they got produced backwards from the way i did them last time. Cristian was only telling you what i was telling him! i have to outsource the actual teeth cutting and the vendor i used got a new machine that had to be setup. these things take time. i will say that your boy Cristian is a very busy person, probably one of the few people i know that does equal to or more than me (and thats ALOT!!) so cut him some slack on this one i am sure he didnt mean to forget you. keep in mind that he is pretty much a one man show!
__________________
MantisWorx
www.rcshox.com
professional RC products

Marcus Williams
MantisMMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.16, 03:10 PM   #22
pfcparts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 628
Whoa...

I suppose racers can't take jokes lol.

Guys take it easy... lol.

Most of what I've been saying was light
hearted and meant in a ribbing/joking
manner.

If I was pissed I would have been done with it
and not posted anything at all... Though marc
can attest me being done with someone is just
enough time away to cool off... I'm not that
much of an arse... I hope.

I am a little irked I didn't wait to get a
better bearing for less...

After re-reading the posts myself, I can see where
they can be taken wrong... It isn't as funny if
it is not face to face, and I'll be more to point and
keep the "funny" stuff to myself.

If it was taken otherwise, I apologize. ct is cool and
always is quicker to reply than expected. Nothing but
respect.

I have not been disappointed in parts from rr before nor will I
be with the next batch. Which, I hope won't take longer
than normal, have the wrong addy, and come intact
lol. (j/k calm down)

What I was getting around was if you'd offer a similar
steel bearing at a high grade, which doesn't seem out of
your philosophy. As is, in building a new diff, you'd have
to buy the ceramic one at 5 or a set of high grades at 10...
or get stuck with the avid singles.

A comparable high grade steel one at a cheaper slightly
more affordable price wouldn't not be appreciated.

5 bucks ain't alot, but it is tough when you get into building
some new diffs and they are easily reaching into the $70-80
chassis range.

As for that veiled non-racer zing, good one.

Though, after running a few blazing stock dnanos, I'm wondering if
a minimalistic approach isn't a bad idea.

Again, we're all in it for fun guys, so don't take anything too personally
and take it easy, jeez.


parts
__________________
pfcparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.16, 03:59 PM   #23
CristianTabush
Registered User
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
Man, I must be an idiot, but I still don't understand you fully...

Are you asking if I would be releasing a higher grade steel bearing to compete with the thrust bearing? I could. The issue is not with the quality, but rather with the type of lubrication. I can give you a crappy bearing packed full of grease, and it would work pretty well for a while. Once they are cleaned out, they quickly deteriorate though. Thrust bearings really need lubrication to stay smooth. This would be the same for high grade steel bearings.

Ceramic bearings are self lubricating. In other words, they can be run dry. This, along with their higher ABEC rating, (which in turn makes the balls in the bearings more round) leads to the smoother and more consistent load handling capabilities. With a steel bearing the issue is really durability as a "high grade" Reflex Bearing, which is essentially dry would only last in the diff for a couple of race days, this in turn is not very cost effective.
__________________
Cristian Tabush
REFLEX RACING USA
10 Time Mini-Z World Champions!!!
http://www.reflexracing net
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.16, 05:29 PM   #24
MantisMMA
tire schredder
 
MantisMMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 864
PFC, no worries man! computers are 2 dimensional!
__________________
MantisWorx
www.rcshox.com
professional RC products

Marcus Williams
MantisMMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.16, 06:03 PM   #25
chad508
PN Racing Team Driver
 
chad508's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Posts: 1,700
[QUOTE=CristianTabush;363379]I am surprised I have no comments on here./QUOTE]

i guess your getting comments now CT.

a question about spur and pinion sizing. i know the ratio makes a difference in torque and speed. but how does a smaller spur to larger pinion compare to large spur small pinion. if ratios are close does the diff act different with a smaller our larger spur. same with the motor. are is it as simple as the ratio is the only change?

thanks
chad508 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.17, 06:46 PM   #26
pfcparts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 628
Now I don't feel as bad now mma thanks lol.
I do appreciate it.

-----

Fair enough, but...

You've said it yourself in this thread and
I'm pretty sure alot would agree they are
not "true" thrust bearings lol...

-----

Yes. In hindsight I should have just asked or pmed.

An equally axial load tolerant "high grade"
steel bearing in which costomers could use
abit of lube (I'm sure everyone has their own
kind in their box
) probably doesn't seem too
far off your philosophy of keeping prices down
and quality up?

I mean if you provide a great cost effective alternative
to ceramics to begin with, I don't think it'd be unfair to
continue or expect from you the same cost
effective alternative to any ceramic offering out there...
including your own lol...

Unless, I'm the idiot... Which I'm more than willing to
admit may be the case.

I mean, a little lube on the balls won't hurt lol.

-----

Surely your high grade bearings last more
than a few races if properly taken care of
and lubed on the diff...?

I wasn't aware that they took that much
abuse...

-----

Although, if you guys could list your grading on bearings and
diff balls etc. (or know of a database of different
manufacturers to find that info) that would be nice thing
to use when comparing items in shopping... as is everything
just seems the same and manufacturers are pretty hesitant
if not against telling you.

I don't want to continue this path of taking away
from the products, so I will either pm or email if I have
anything pressing... Again, it was never my intention
for it get here. I am truly appreciative of the replys and
info though.


parts
__________________
pfcparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.17, 06:51 PM   #27
ruf
4play
 
ruf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Reflex Racing, everywhere
Posts: 2,602
The thrust bearing in a diff takes a tremendous amount of abuse, especially if you are crash prone. Every impact to the rear wheel is transmitted to the thrust bearing in addition to the normal operational loads. I probably go through a normal thrust bearing 15-20 packs if I want my diff at full health. The reason ceramic balls work so well here is that they won't flat spot like steel balls and the higher tolerances of the higher ABEC rating gives you a better load distribution across the balls.
__________________
Joe Chen
www.reflexracing.net
Houston, TX
Mini-Z World Champions!
Reflex Racing Blog
Reflex Racing YouTube
ruf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.17, 10:44 PM   #28
Felix2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruf View Post
The thrust bearing in a diff takes a tremendous amount of abuse, especially if you are crash prone. Every impact to the rear wheel is transmitted to the thrust bearing in addition to the normal operational loads. I probably go through a normal thrust bearing 15-20 packs if I want my diff at full health. The reason ceramic balls work so well here is that they won't flat spot like steel balls and the higher tolerances of the higher ABEC rating gives you a better load distribution across the balls.
ruf - Good points about how this new Reflex abec-7 "thrust" bearing can function better as a thrust bearing than the stock OEM 3x6x2.5 bearing sold with all the ball diffs out there (even though it technically isn't a thrust bearing).
Another reason why it's good the new "thrust" bearing is ceramic:
Ceramic balls can be produced ultra-precisely and because they are basically as hard as a diamond, they retain their perfect shape much longer than their steel counterparts. A true abec-7 bearing if it is made out of steel will feel ultra-smooth for the first few times you use it; But! it will quickly lose its abec-7 tolerance - Very quickly - due to the steel balls flat-spotting and becoming out-of-true.
$5 for an abec-7 ceramic bearing is not bad at all. And it will far-outlast an abec-7 steel bearing.

BTW just my opinion, but 12 bucks for 7 abec-5-rated bearings makes the Reflex High-Grade MR02 bearing set one of the best buys around. Wow! I thought they were only abec-3 - And even at abec-3, $12 for a set is a great buy!
Felix2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.22, 04:15 PM   #29
pfcparts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 628
I see.

I didn't realize they took that much abuse; just
assumed they took the same punishment as
the others.

If mine got grainy, I just looked at the plates,
cleaned and relubed the bearing, and packed
in a little more grease on the balls. Something
else to look out for.

I haven't changed any in ages...

-----

RR/MMA spurs: 53s had abit of clean up with the
exacto (burs on the spurs lol), but 51s seem perfect
from a quick glance. Nice design and execution.

Little tight on the shaft, but should wear with a little
use or I can always polish a little. Concerned on how
exposed the balls/plates are... You can't get away
from using a spacer either it seems...

Otherwise, well done all around.

RR HG TB: I did a test with a diff and old pn rm pod
to see if they compared with the ATM ceramic TBs I
bought earlier. The RR bearing seemed to not to spin
as long or as free as the ATM, but I will try it again.

I usually dry ATM ceramics in motor cleaner (ATM
puts some sort of gunk in it) so to be fair I will do
the same to the RR ones as I thought I noticed a
hint of grease in them. Real test is in the diff though...

ATMs work really really well so far on the two I've
made, so I'd expect the RR HGs to surpass them.

Looking forward to getting the diffs into the 03 and
a few other new items (hopefully this weekend).


parts
__________________
pfcparts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.10.22, 07:40 PM   #30
CristianTabush
Registered User
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
With the bearings, in the front they seem to get faster as they break in, so keep that in mind...

I hope you enjoy your parts...
__________________
Cristian Tabush
REFLEX RACING USA
10 Time Mini-Z World Champions!!!
http://www.reflexracing net
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spur gear recommendations Falken GT-R Parts and Hop-ups 3 2005.06.22 07:38 PM
How to change the play between Spur gear and pinion gear on F1 ? Bandie Mini-Z F1 MF-010, MF-015 0 2005.01.16 07:47 AM
PN Racing Delrin Spur Gear query revzalot Parts and Hop-ups 1 2005.01.09 01:53 PM
Whats the Pinion Gear, Spur Gear relation? G'ZOX Setups 5 2004.02.16 01:19 AM
pinion and spur gear questions racerdx6 Parts and Hop-ups 4 2003.07.05 09:18 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts