Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2010.09.27, 10:58 PM   #1
chad508
PN Racing Team Driver
 
chad508's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Posts: 1,700
RR reverse kingpin

anyone else check out the reflex blog. they have a new reverse kingpin system that looks pretty interesting.
__________________
PN Racing
R1Wurks
LET's Go Racing
MBMZR
DG Designs
chad508 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 06:01 AM   #2
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
"Interesting" in the sense that it's "right". This is the optimal configuration that 12th-scalers have had for years, just weird that Kyosho never gave it to us. Unfortunately there really is no space to lower your car with these springs, which means that the suspension geometry might not be able to be set to what you were using before. For example, I prefer slightly taller tires with lower ride height, so I would have 1mm of space for the spring coils, lol...

Good job again Reflex!
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog

Last edited by color01; 2010.09.28 at 06:04 AM.
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 09:40 AM   #3
JuniorWKR
White Knuckle Racing
 
JuniorWKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,708
wont putting shims on top of the knuckle adjust preload on the spring and ride height?
__________________
Junior
MHS Director of Public Relations / Track Coordinator
TEAM DRIVER FOR: MHS - DG Designs - TEAM SCREAM RACING -TOP SECRET MOTORS -LL3 INDUSTRIES - REFLEX RACING - Dream Killr

LIVE Mini-Z Racing Every Fri and Sat Nite 7pm - Dnano Racing Every Mon Nite 530pm - 1/16th - 1/18th Off Road Racing (times and days to be announced)
JuniorWKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 10:08 AM   #4
JuniorWKR
White Knuckle Racing
 
JuniorWKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorWKR View Post
wont putting shims on top of the knuckle adjust preload on the spring and ride height?
it will also add camber which may not be a bad thing also...
__________________
Junior
MHS Director of Public Relations / Track Coordinator
TEAM DRIVER FOR: MHS - DG Designs - TEAM SCREAM RACING -TOP SECRET MOTORS -LL3 INDUSTRIES - REFLEX RACING - Dream Killr

LIVE Mini-Z Racing Every Fri and Sat Nite 7pm - Dnano Racing Every Mon Nite 530pm - 1/16th - 1/18th Off Road Racing (times and days to be announced)
JuniorWKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 11:36 AM   #5
EMU
EMUracing
 
EMU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,697
Send a message via AIM to EMU
I like this option

Shims on top of the knuckle wont lower the ride height. It will limit the suspension travel, and will increase camber and spring preload. Shims under the knuckle effect all four. Adjusting camber should be done with alternate methods if you only want to adjust the camber without effecting preload/travel.
__________________
EMUracing
Reflex Racing /Mantis Worx /HKS Hobby /DG Designs /GSR /Team Scream Racing /Cruizin With RC's /Fast By Faqish
EMU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 12:02 PM   #6
CristianTabush
Registered User
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
"Interesting" in the sense that it's "right". This is the optimal configuration that 12th-scalers have had for years, just weird that Kyosho never gave it to us. Unfortunately there really is no space to lower your car with these springs, which means that the suspension geometry might not be able to be set to what you were using before. For example, I prefer slightly taller tires with lower ride height, so I would have 1mm of space for the spring coils, lol...

Good job again Reflex!
Always so skeptical.

The front can be lowered quite a bit, just can be used with FULL size Kyosho front tires as it will be simply too tall. You can still use taller tires with a smaller wheel and achieve lower ride heights.

Also, a smaller diameter front tire is also superior under most track conditions (the only time you really want to run a tall tire is if the track has NO grip watsoever, even then I would go with a smaller tire, softer compound). It allows you to drop your front end ride height without dropping your front roll center. Low front roll centers on the MR-03 are the Devil. They cause the car to traction roll and lose too much corner speed.
__________________
Cristian Tabush
REFLEX RACING USA
10 Time Mini-Z World Champions!!!
http://www.reflexracing net
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 12:15 PM   #7
EMU
EMUracing
 
EMU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,697
Send a message via AIM to EMU
I almost always lower my front ride height with the front wheel/tire choice. There are many options on the market for 19mm wheels, and if you want to go lower than that, you can use the Mantis 18.2mm Group C wheels. If thats not enough, then Kyosho LM, Nascar or Classic wheels would be the smallest usable wheel. Having a smaller wheel also increases the responsiveness of the car, and one of the reasons that I prefer using them to lower the front end rather than shimming up the knuckle.
__________________
EMUracing
Reflex Racing /Mantis Worx /HKS Hobby /DG Designs /GSR /Team Scream Racing /Cruizin With RC's /Fast By Faqish
EMU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 03:12 PM   #8
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Always so skeptical.

The front can be lowered quite a bit, just can be used with FULL size Kyosho front tires as it will be simply too tall. You can still use taller tires with a smaller wheel and achieve lower ride heights.

Also, a smaller diameter front tire is also superior under most track conditions (the only time you really want to run a tall tire is if the track has NO grip watsoever, even then I would go with a smaller tire, softer compound). It allows you to drop your front end ride height without dropping your front roll center. Low front roll centers on the MR-03 are the Devil. They cause the car to traction roll and lose too much corner speed.
Huh? Sorry if I came across that way Cristian, but my intention was to state that this is THE best way to implement reverse-kingpin suspension, and I'm glad you guys found the springs to do so! I'm just worried that people who like to "slam" their cars aren't going to have suspension uptravel room (me being one of them). I'm already running 19mm wheels but I still lower my car by additional 1.2mm and raise the roll center accordingly.

Should I email you to add a set of the springs to my order? I have the PN reverse kingpins already.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog

Last edited by color01; 2010.09.28 at 03:21 PM.
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 03:25 PM   #9
CristianTabush
Registered User
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
The springs will not be available by themselves for now. The kingpin is different than the PN one. It does not have a flange. This allows you to play with King-pin positioning a bit and get extra ground clearance. The pivot balls are also recessed to allow for the spring to sit inside.
__________________
Cristian Tabush
REFLEX RACING USA
10 Time Mini-Z World Champions!!!
http://www.reflexracing net
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 03:36 PM   #10
JuniorWKR
White Knuckle Racing
 
JuniorWKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,708
the picture that is posted on the blog. What knuckles are those?
__________________
Junior
MHS Director of Public Relations / Track Coordinator
TEAM DRIVER FOR: MHS - DG Designs - TEAM SCREAM RACING -TOP SECRET MOTORS -LL3 INDUSTRIES - REFLEX RACING - Dream Killr

LIVE Mini-Z Racing Every Fri and Sat Nite 7pm - Dnano Racing Every Mon Nite 530pm - 1/16th - 1/18th Off Road Racing (times and days to be announced)
JuniorWKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 03:39 PM   #11
CristianTabush
Registered User
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
Those are our own knuckles. I am still playing around a bit for clearance but they are almost done.

And BTW, no worries Brian, just giving you a hard time
__________________
Cristian Tabush
REFLEX RACING USA
10 Time Mini-Z World Champions!!!
http://www.reflexracing net
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 03:44 PM   #12
JuniorWKR
White Knuckle Racing
 
JuniorWKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,708
is your knuckle considered a standard hieght or a low down? and will a low down version give you more options on ride height?
__________________
Junior
MHS Director of Public Relations / Track Coordinator
TEAM DRIVER FOR: MHS - DG Designs - TEAM SCREAM RACING -TOP SECRET MOTORS -LL3 INDUSTRIES - REFLEX RACING - Dream Killr

LIVE Mini-Z Racing Every Fri and Sat Nite 7pm - Dnano Racing Every Mon Nite 530pm - 1/16th - 1/18th Off Road Racing (times and days to be announced)
JuniorWKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 04:53 PM   #13
Felix2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 982
CT - How does it work? On the track I mean? Is it the best suspension you've used, can it be adjusted enough to make it one of if not the most susperior MR03 front suspensions available? Thanks for the pics too, love checking out pics
__________________
*** TOP SECRET MOTORS ***
[FONT="Book Antiqua"]
Felix2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 04:57 PM   #14
CristianTabush
Registered User
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
The axles on our knuckles are raised a bit to provide lower ride height. Low down vs standard is relative. For example, with stock knuckles, I typically run a 0.5mm shim underneath the knuckle. With lowering knuckles, I do not run anything when I use 19mm front wheels.
__________________
Cristian Tabush
REFLEX RACING USA
10 Time Mini-Z World Champions!!!
http://www.reflexracing net
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.09.28, 05:28 PM   #15
CristianTabush
Registered User
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
Felix, I just see it as a different suspension.

They all work similarly and all have their advantages and disadvantages. Personally I like it, it makes the front super precise, because it reduces slop to almost non-existent levels.

The Pros and Cons are below:

Pros:
-Economical: The full set will cost probably about $13.00-14.00 comes with balls, king pin, e-clips (including extras) and a spring set.
-Light Weight: The King pin is small, light and so are the pillow balls and springs.
-Reduces slop over traditional and Reflex Xtra long King pin set-up.
-Really smooth. The benefits of a reverse kingpin is having less sliding parts. This usually means more front traction.
-Low maintenance: These parts make the wear of the front end much lower, even the knuckles. This keeps COST DOWN.
-VERSATILE: It can be run reverse style or with the spring at the top. It also works with Kyosho, Atomic or PN Lower arms.
-LOW PROFILE

Cons:
-Not as adjustable
-E Clips are sometimes tough for some people
-Limited ride height possibilities in Reverse Set Up. Basically, you are better off with worn-in or trued tires.
-Car is a little twitchier due to increased front suspension efficiency. You have to use thicker grease to tame the front end down vs the top spring set-up.
-Clearance of the bottom can get a little low if not spaced properly.
__________________
Cristian Tabush
REFLEX RACING USA
10 Time Mini-Z World Champions!!!
http://www.reflexracing net
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wait for New Double A-Arm Front-end OR Go with Reverse Kingpin front setup??? Felix2010 Mini-Z Racer MR-03, MR-03 VE, Sports Series 8 2010.09.28 08:25 AM
M 11 Mr 02 2.4 reverse issue tbar1981 Transmitters, Receivers and Crystals 3 2010.03.12 02:45 PM
*** Reverse *** Tim Johnson 2.4GHz ASF System (Auto Selected Frequency) 76 2009.09.22 09:13 PM
Forward to get reverse? MikeL Mini-Z Racer MR-02 4 2008.03.26 01:13 PM
HELP! Mini-Zracer.com Turbo - REVERSE ONLY? The Thunderer Parts and Hop-ups 5 2002.08.17 12:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts