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Old 2011.01.12, 11:51 AM   #1
Felix2010
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MR03 chassis: Overall better than 02 main chassis?

If there's one thing I see a lot when it comes to race chassis' from 1/10th up to 1/28th, it is lowering CG and grouping the weight of the main chassis towards the center of the chassis. Chassis' have been getting narrower and narrower for a while in larger scales (On-road EP cars at least); For Mini-Z, when I saw the MR03's super-narrow battery-tray & chassis profile side-to-side, I thought that this can only be a positive. Am I right? Or is the 02 with its wider side-side profile' battery tray better?

I know the 03 main chassis has lots of material removed. This can mean chassis Flex. The 02 chassis had much less holes/material removed so many people say the 02 is stiffer.

What I am wondering is, why does it seem that the 03 chassis takes a lot of flak about how it flexes, how the 03 chassis is fragile, and how the 03 chassis is too narrow? I thought:

-Narrower the chassis, the better. Better weight centralization. Faster directional response.
-Lighter 03 chassis = Better for all-out racing. No bulk.
-With 03 chassis, chassis has better flex which can aid in traction gains, particularly for certain types of driving styles and certain driving surfaces.

Are these points correct?

If the 03 chassis is fragile by some racers standards, what are some options to make the bottom plate stiffer? There's the Kyosho CF bottom plate, but some say it is bulky and in order to use the stiffener you must raise you cars' suspension and CG to avoid grounding the chassis on RCP. Anyone use the bottom 03 CF stiffening plate with success? What other ways can we stiffen the 03 chassis?

Is there any instance where a racer would choose a wider-profile chassis over a more compact, better-weight-centralized chassis?

I saw a while ago how some guys left chassis fastening screws out of the chassis assembly in order to let the AW chassis better flex. Is some flex better for RCP tracks? Or no flex is best for RCP? Which would it be? And when would a super-stiff chassis be best suited for a track/condition - RCP? Regupol? Carpet? Is there a chassis "flex chart" we could follow for each surface? Less flex for some tracks, more flex for others? ANd which?

How bad/good os the Kyosho CF 03 stiffening plate kit? Useless? Worth tinkering with? COuld we permanently glue a flex-preventing CF plate directly to the bottom of the flexing chassis'? If the 03 needs stiffening up, whats the best way to do it?

OR - Is the 02 chassis design (CHassis-Design ONLY - Not front suspension, rear suspension, nothing else - Just chassis design. Which would be 1st pick for a top race event for all you seasoned pros out there?

T.Y. in advance, as always
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Old 2011.01.12, 01:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
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If the 03 chassis is fragile by some racers standards, what are some options to make the bottom plate stiffer? There's the Kyosho CF bottom plate, but some say it is bulky and in order to use the stiffener you must raise you cars' suspension and CG to avoid grounding the chassis on RCP. Anyone use the bottom 03 CF stiffening plate with success? What other ways can we stiffen the 03 chassis?

:
i have put brass or copper rods on the bottom of the 03 chassis, the groove between the batteries. it helps alot to make chassis stiffer. im starting to move back to the 02 chassis. granted the one 02 i am running does have the pn a arm. i do not like the top plate on the 03 i feel they warp real bad at the damper mounts. and you have to buy a complete chassis t just get the top plate. im no top drive by any standard so i dont feel i would lose or gain anything time wise from either chassis. and from what ive seen at big events most all the top guys run 02.
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Old 2011.01.12, 01:25 PM   #3
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on another note i dont feel the weight savings helps me as most the time ive had to add weight to meet min. weight at most races.
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Old 2011.01.12, 07:51 PM   #4
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Im not going to get technical but, i say run both. They are both good. I run and have both. I run the one that "feels" good to me on the track that race day.

As far as the Kyosho chassis stiffner....Didnt get alot of testing with it yet but on my small home track, im liking the way it feels/runs. You dont have to have your chassis much (if any different), ride height wise.

The main reason i kept my 02s, was i prefer the A-arms. Since the A-arms are out and on some of my 03s...im still keeping my 02s also.
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Old 2011.01.12, 08:03 PM   #5
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The PN A-Arm for the 02 was the reason I didn't get rid of any of my 02's either

The 02 chassis also has more space inside to play with if you want to do custom work (I added a Nelly and no way would a Nelly fit inside the 03 chassis. I have an RA-22 + Nelly MR02 with PN A-Arm, and I like it a lot

But... Now with PN's 03 A-Arm (Hand's-Down the best front suspension for the 03) I am thinking the 02's days are numbered for me

I am going to try the Kyosho bottom CF stiffener plate for the 03. There has to be a way o fidget with it to get the benefits without raising the ride height tremendously or scraping the track. I don't run the cars ultra-low anyway, so I bet even withe the K CF 03 chassis plate my 03's will still ride higher off the track than color0's ridiculously-low MRCG setups he runs (Not a negtive towards you at all color0, I love the way your chassis+cars look)

Also I did see what look like brass rods mounted underneath a Reflex car on the http:// reflexracing .blogspot. com/ . If it works, then it looks like the simplest solution. Also adds weihght to the dead-bottom of the chassis maintaining ultra-low CG.

About the minimum weight restrictions.. I hear ya. Why have a super-light chassis if you have to add weight to make minimum requirements? I will answer my own question here : You cn add that weight to any particular place on the chassis you choose. Want more steering? Move the weight toward the bottom-front chassis. More rollout on turns? You can try moving the weight upwards on the chassis until you find the perfect spot. Just another tuning option; You don't have to settle for the additional weight being wherever Kyosho made the plastic thicker on the chassis. You can control added weight, just like in stock car racing. I have to say I like adding weight where I want to add it.
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Old 2011.01.12, 09:11 PM   #6
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As far as the 03 chassis stiffner, i dont think i made much change at all. I think i still have the rear axle spacers/bearing holder (PN pod), the same. I just made sure the front isnt rediculously low to scrape. As it is now, the fronts plenty low without scraping.

The brass rods, i believe, are more for adding weight to the 03 chassis and they fit perfect in the grooves. At the worlds Cristian gave me some rods to add weight.
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Old 2011.01.13, 01:02 AM   #7
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I am going to try the Kyosho bottom CF stiffener plate for the 03. There has to be a way o fidget with it to get the benefits without raising the ride height tremendously or scraping the track. I don't run the cars ultra-low anyway, so I bet even withe the K CF 03 chassis plate my 03's will still ride higher off the track than color0's ridiculously-low MRCG setups he runs (Not a negtive towards you at all color0, I love the way your chassis+cars look)
Offense? What offense? Even my 03 will still be lower after you install the K CF plate, lol, that's just how I roll.

A less hardcore way to stiffen up the 03 chassis a bit would be to glue strips of CF laminate into the grooves (the same grooves where Reflex puts brass weight). Also, replacing the stock chassis with the SP version would help, as the material is closer to (if not the same as) the beefy 02 main chassis.

The thing about RCP though is that we have plenty of traction -- in high-traction situations, the cars are going faster and need to transition faster, so a too-soft chassis is actually a bad thing. I don't personally know which chassis has the more optimal stiffness or how to calculate, but playing around with the K CF plate might give us some clues.
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Old 2011.01.13, 10:59 AM   #8
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On to Something

From our experience, the majority of assumptions are correct. EXCEPT for Felix saying the PN Front end is the best hands down. How is that a quantifiable statement? That is a personal opinion. I am not taking an offense to this, but c'mon are we adults or 8 year old kids?

As for which is best? I don't think there is a right answer. It has been proven over and over that there are different ways to reach an optimum configuration. Both the 02 and the 03 are fairly similar performance wise.

As for flex, typically the less grip, the more flexible chassis you will want. In this case, the 03 is optimal with the black chassis, as it is the most flexible. For high grip, you want a stiffer chassis and the 02 chassis is the stiffest. Especially the gray one. We have had a lot of success adding the brass rods not only as a weight gain to bring the cars up to minimum, but also to stiffen the chassis on the 03. This is also the reason why kyosho released the bottom plate. People asked for a stiffer chassis, so Kyosho Japan did this to help. This is one of the main reasons the PN guys are so fast with their 02's. They run on higher-than-usual grip tracks. The 02 excels here.

Ask the PN team how they did at the TEKIN nats last year with their 02's. Philip barely made the PC main, and Grant missed it all-together. The track at ILR used to have super low grip and in the higher horsepower classes, the 02's would just not hook up.

With that we have found a fairly good leveling mechanism to take traction roll issues away from the 03 is to stiffen the chassis as well as raising the front roll center. This certainly closed the gap at the PNWC finals, where the 02's and 03's were VERY similar in performance and lap times.
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Old 2011.01.13, 05:07 PM   #9
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I got a little excited there for a minute about the new PN Dbl A-Arm Front Suspension for the 03... It is just personal opinion, missed the "IMHO" key on that one. No harm intended or aimed at anyone, I apologize

Lots of good info here. I am going to try to get a K CF MR03 chassis-stiffener plate kit.
@lfisminiz - Say I have an MR03 chassis that I want to add the CF stiffener plate to, and the RTR bottom-chassis ride height (Chassis-to-RCP) is roughly 2mm with batteries installed; Maybe the bottom chassis is 2.2mm-2.4mm max from the ground. Is this adequate to install the Kyosho CF bottom-chassis plate without having to raise chassis ride-height? What if the RTR chassis ride height is in the 1.5mm to 1.9mm range for ground clearance? Would this be adequate to plug-and-play the 03 CF chassis plate onto this MR03 and not have ground clearance issues? Just approx of course, when I actually see the CF chassis plate for the 03 I will do what needs to be done to maintain enough ground clearance so to not scrape the RCP at all during a run

@ CT - Have you experimented at all with the CF chassis plate for the 03? If so, Any good? Do you like it on your car or would you rather go with the brass rods?
Also, CT - would you consider racing an 02 main chassis' car again if you found that a particular track you were about to have a race at had crazy-good grip? Or is attaching brass rods to the 03 chassis the way you would handle this situation instead? One last thing - What about CF laminate strips glued to the 03 chassis in place of the brass rods? Like say, if you wren't looking to add extra weight to the chassis, only stiffen the 03 chassis?



Thank you for everyone's help
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Old 2011.01.13, 05:15 PM   #10
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The brass rods were to primarily add weight to meet the minimum weight for the classes the cars were raced in. I made weight at the worlds (heavier body), so I didnt add any brass rods. The rods do stiffen the chassis slightly, but the primary purpose is to add the weight at the lowest point of the chassis.

I have mostly been driving the MR03 in all sorts of conditions this past year. High grip, mid grip, low grip, smooth, bumpy, very bumpy... I havent found the chassis to be too soft, but at times on high grip I wished it was just a little stiffer. I have a grey chassis sitting in a box that I should setup for those situations to compare the difference... All of my other cars have the original black chassis.
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Old 2011.01.13, 05:41 PM   #11
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Felix (larry), Ill get back to you tonight on that.
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Old 2011.01.13, 06:10 PM   #12
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Felix (larry), Ill get back to you tonight on that.
Thank you! No rush, whenever you want to add any info that'd be great
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Old 2011.01.13, 07:04 PM   #13
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This war between the 02 and the 03 can go on forever. It's all based on driver preference. the 02 is stiffer overall and is good on high grip rcp. but with every nut behind the wheel, he or she can find a way to go fast. rught now as I see mini z racing it is starting to look like 1/10 tc racing car hop up are being made at an alarming rate and making new racer wonder if it really work.
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Old 2011.01.13, 08:03 PM   #14
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Thank you! No rush, whenever you want to add any info that'd be great
OK, what i have is........

from track to bottom of chassis with stiffner on, batts in, it looks to be about 2MM or a little less. Its pretty much the same from front to back. The stiffner is 1MM thick. You could have stiffner on and still go lower for sure. My A-arm cars are lower in front. Hope this helps.
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Old 2011.01.13, 09:18 PM   #15
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as far as the rods on my 03, i used them to stiffen the chassis as opposed to weight. i superglued them in the entire length and this stiffened the chassis alot.
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