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Old 2017.01.09, 09:34 AM   #1
AtomicCP
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94mm On power turning issue...

Hey guys! I have an MR03 with the ATOMIC 94mm MM mount, PN Racing 94-98mm friction mount with a Hard spring on top Mid spring on bottom, Stock center shock, ATOMIC Mid Fiberglass T Plate, Wide front end, 0* knuckles, and ATOMIC Soft Green springs. I currently run Kyosho 20* radial tires in back and PIT 15* slicks up front. Im pretty new to Mini Z cars and seem to have alot of on power push. My off power turning is good but would like more on power for the sweepers on our track. I was thinking of going to a harder T plate. What are your thoughts?
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Old 2017.01.09, 09:44 AM   #2
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Sounds like you need more front grip. When I push I add a little camber and change tires. I also true my front tires flat all the across. I run hard springs up front and a carbon 3 T plate.

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Old 2017.01.09, 10:05 AM   #3
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Sounds like you need more front grip. When I push I add a little camber and change tires. I also true my front tires flat all the across. I run hard springs up front and a carbon 3 T plate.

Kris
When you say you change tires Im assuming you went to a softer tire? I should note it pushes more after about 4 laps into a race. Im thinking my front tires are too soft. Also is the carbon 3 T plate on the softer or harder side? My set runs from 4 to 6 in .5mm increments.
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Last edited by AtomicCP; 2017.01.09 at 04:48 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 2017.01.09, 01:14 PM   #4
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What body are you using? Camber/Carter setting? What differential, and how tight is it set, does it slip When applying throttle?

There are many variables that come into play when trying to dial in a car. I have no experience with the front tires that you are using, so cannot comment much on them.

Do you have the tires taped or glued to the wheels?

One thing that stands out is that you have relatively soft front springs. They will help the car into the corner, but will reduce steering from the mid corner on once they load fully. I would advise using a stiffer frp t-plate, and move up on stiffness with the front springs a little as well. You may be lifting the inside front tire as throttle transfers weight rearward, this reducing steering on exit.

By increasing stiffness on all four corners, the cat should have more similar behavior on corner entry as corner exit.

Your disc damper spring setup, with a harder top spring relative to bottom spring will also induce on throttle push. So that may be the first line of attack to reverse the springs and see if it exhibits the same or opposite characteristic. With a harder bottom spring, you will keep more mass on the front wheels as throttle is applied, as the car will squat less.

Please update when you try some adjustments. Do one at a time, and run some laps (3-5 minutes) to see the results.
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Old 2017.01.09, 02:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMU View Post
What body are you using? Camber/Carter setting? What differential, and how tight is it set, does it slip When applying throttle?

There are many variables that come into play when trying to dial in a car. I have no experience with the front tires that you are using, so cannot comment much on them.

Do you have the tires taped or glued to the wheels?

One thing that stands out is that you have relatively soft front springs. They will help the car into the corner, but will reduce steering from the mid corner on once they load fully. I would advise using a stiffer frp t-plate, and move up on stiffness with the front springs a little as well. You may be lifting the inside front tire as throttle transfers weight rearward, this reducing steering on exit.

By increasing stiffness on all four corners, the cat should have more similar behavior on corner entry as corner exit.

Your disc damper spring setup, with a harder top spring relative to bottom spring will also induce on throttle push. So that may be the first line of attack to reverse the springs and see if it exhibits the same or opposite characteristic. With a harder bottom spring, you will keep more mass on the front wheels as throttle is applied, as the car will squat less.

Please update when you try some adjustments. Do one at a time, and run some laps (3-5 minutes) to see the results.
I currently run the Nissan JGTC R34 GTR body, ATOMIC Carbon ball diff and 0* caster and camber. The tires are not glued or taped. Everyone in my club seems to think it is a waste of time and advised against it. I will try the disk dampener spring flip first. I can go up a spring and t plate as well. I will try those after the springs. Thank you for your input EMU!
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Old 2017.01.09, 04:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicCP View Post
I currently run the Nissan JGTC R34 GTR body, ATOMIC Carbon ball diff and 0* caster and camber. The tires are not glued or taped. Everyone in my club seems to think it is a waste of time and advised against it. I will try the disk dampener spring flip first. I can go up a spring and t plate as well. I will try those after the springs. Thank you for your input EMU!
Taping/glueing tires is essential. Even if people don't feel that it is necessary. The sidewalls will occasionally peel up, giving inconsistent handling... And if you unload the diff at any point, the tire can balloon and shift.

I would definitely recommend that you start taping... or glueing the tires. On lower speed circuits, it is less vital. But if they aren't taped, it makes it much more difficult to work out irregularities in handling that could be tire related.

If you true the tires, it becomes even more important to glue/tape the tire. As the tire gets thinner, it needs more support to stay on the wheel.
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Old 2017.01.09, 04:45 PM   #7
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Taping/glueing tires is essential. Even if people don't feel that it is necessary. The sidewalls will occasionally peel up, giving inconsistent handling... And if you unload the diff at any point, the tire can balloon and shift.

I would definitely recommend that you start taping... or glueing the tires. On lower speed circuits, it is less vital. But if they aren't taped, it makes it much more difficult to work out irregularities in handling that could be tire related.

If you true the tires, it becomes even more important to glue/tape the tire. As the tire gets thinner, it needs more support to stay on the wheel.
Im using the R246 Volk CE28 wheels. Could you recommend a manufacturer of tape?
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Old 2017.01.09, 05:00 PM   #8
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I have had the best results with the r246 tape.

http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?p...7&cat=0&page=1

http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?p...6&cat=0&page=1

When taping, you want to be as close to the outside edge of the tire as you can.

These are two widths, for front or rear. Although you can use just the rear width, and cut off the excess with a sharp exacto once the tire is mounted.
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Old 2017.01.09, 05:11 PM   #9
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I have had the best results with the r246 tape.

http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?p...7&cat=0&page=1

http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?p...6&cat=0&page=1

When taping, you want to be as close to the outside edge of the tire as you can.

These are two widths, for front or rear. Although you can use just the rear width, and cut off the excess with a sharp exacto once the tire is mounted.
Been reading alot about taping the tires. Most guys are taping along the outside edge on the fronts and the inside edge on the rear.
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Old 2017.01.09, 05:16 PM   #10
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It depends on how you want The traction. I like a little more rotation on the rear tire, since I typically use a slightly harder front tire than many that I race with. I don't like my rear sidewalls lifting as I rotate through the mid corner before getting on throttle.

if I had a more aggressive front end, I would try to get a little more side bite on the rear by moving the tape inwards. Again, there are many tiny changes with these cars that all add up to how it is dialed in. Attention to these minute details can allow you to recreate the setup, and adapt it for different conditions.
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Old 2017.01.09, 05:25 PM   #11
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I agree with everything that EMU posted. Taping the tires is more important then anything else he posted. Building a very smooth diff is also a big help. If you let the diff slip just a hair coming on the throttle it will help to not transfer as much weight to the rear wheels as you get on the throttle. I also like to use the PN spur gears. They cover the opening to the gap where the diff balls are so the diff stays cleaner for a much more consistent diff.
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Old 2017.01.09, 05:37 PM   #12
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I agree with everything that EMU posted. Taping the tires is more important then anything else he posted. Building a very smooth diff is also a big help. If you let the diff slip just a hair coming on the throttle it will help to not transfer as much weight to the rear wheels as you get on the throttle. I also like to use the PN spur gears. They cover the opening to the gap where the diff balls are so the diff stays cleaner for a much more consistent diff.
So tape tires down, let the diff slip alittle, change springs around, then try different tires up front if Im still having on power issues. Guess Ive got some work to do lol!
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Old 2017.01.09, 05:49 PM   #13
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Do it all a little at a time... So you can see the difference each one makes on its own.
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Old 2017.01.09, 05:54 PM   #14
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Do it all a little at a time... So you can see the difference each one makes on its own.
Ill start with the tape and spring flip first. Thank you again for the advice! Ill keep you guys posted as this progresses.
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Old 2017.01.09, 06:14 PM   #15
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The gtr also is a little rear heavy. Which tends to increase steering off throttle, but push on throttle. It's sort of the nature of the body. So, just be aware that the chassis setup will be a little different from body to body depending on its center of mass.
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